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· Make It So!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In our travels we've met LEO's from different countries, including from Taiwan.
We also work with several Chinese speaking colleagues.
We were forwarded this story, confirmed by LE source -

http://markets.businessinsider.com/...-over-gun-on-flight-from-us-2017-4-1001922360

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-usa-police-idUSKBN17G0IZ

Brief summary - Officer Nell Grant went on vacation with family to Thailand, with stopover in Taiwan. She realized that she had her backup weapon (a Ruger LCP per source) in her backpack while she was waiting for her connecting flight in Taiwan's main international airport. She promptly notified the airport authority and surrendered her weapon and herself, and was taken into custody. She is befuddled that TSA in LAX did not find the gun in her carry on bag. She claims she simply forgot the gun was in her backpack.

We don't have diplomatic relationship with Taiwan, so AIT (American In Taiwan), technically an NGO staffed with State Department employees on "sabbatical," has been notified and is assisting this officer.

My understanding is that while she is no longer physically in custody, she may not leave Taiwan until the investigation is completed. My understanding is also that Taiwanese prosecutor is focusing on "intent." They are satisfied that she is not a criminal gun smuggler (which carries the maximum of death penalty). But they are looking to charge her with unauthorized firearm possession in the airport, which carries 2 to 7 years in prison, depending on which statute they actually charge her with, if any.

My understanding is also that the prosecutor may elect not to file criminal charges if he/she can be convinced that this was an innocent negligence without intent or malice to break Taiwanese laws, and simply just confiscate her firearm. But this investigative process may take several months. Source tells me that important factors the prosecutor is considering is whether or not it is legal for her to carry her off duty weapon in the U.S. (hopefully easy to establish to their satisfaction by LEOSA and CA penal code), and how common the practice is (presumably to establish whether or not it is reasonable for her to have forgotten her weapon in her backpack).

Take home lesson - check your luggage for guns and ammo before you travel abroad!
And yeah, TSA apparently sucks at catching guns at checkpoints.
 

· Registered
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Yeah. Whenever flying or going to Canada the first thing I do is check vehicle and all baggage for firearms or related materials.

Going to be staying on an Army base next week so I am clearing all that stuff out of my car today before we head out.
 

· Make It So!!
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3,236 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here's link to a Chinese news site forwarded to me showing a video of her being taken into custody and pictures of her gun/badge. Don't ask me what the Chinese article actually says....

https://udn.com/news/story/7320/2402622
 

· Banned
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At least the chinese are being people about it. Nothing more frustrating than a person screwing another person over claiming "their hands are tied" or "the rule book says this".
I like generalizing the 1:20,000 anamoly and claiming it makes the rule so I'm gonna steal your last line and flip it.
And yeah, apparently police officers suck at personal accountability and knowing where their weapons are.
 

· Make It So!!
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3,236 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
At least the chinese are being people about it. Nothing more frustrating than a person screwing another person over claiming "their hands are tied" or "the rule book says this".
Yeah, my understanding is that the Taiwanese prosecutor is willing to accept that this officer has a "legally acceptable reason" to be in possession of a firearm, which apparently is a big deal under Taiwanese criminal law and goes a long way in establishing lack of criminal intent. Unfortunately, they may still charge her with unauthorized possession inside an airport.

Keep in mind that Taiwanese police officers apparently must turn in their service weapons at the end of each shift and cannot bring their service weapons home, and would face similar charges if they bring their service weapons off duty into the airport without permission.

It looks like their prosecutor is doing everything he/she can to not charge her criminally (or at least find a way not to have her serve any jail time), while still appears to have exercised his/her prosecutorial discretions appropriately.
 
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· Banned
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Yeah, my understanding is that the Taiwanese prosecutor is willing to accept that this officer has a "legally acceptable reason" to be in possession of a firearm, which apparently is a big deal under Taiwanese criminal law and goes a long way in establishing lack of criminal intent. Unfortunately, they may still charge her with unauthorized possession inside an airport.

It looks like their prosecutor is doing everything he/she can to not charge her criminally (or at least find a way not to have her serve any jail time), while still appears to have exercised his/her prosecutorial discretions appropriately.
No doubt that someone somewhere would've been willing to push for trafficking even though it was only one weapon.
I'm hoping, and assuming, she'll get off with no time. Hopefully this is one scenario where the myth that "Americans have so many guns" might actually work in her favor.

You know she had to see the pending crap storm looming. Kudos to her for having the integrity to go straight to security and be so forthright. I might've been tempted to break the weapon down and either ditch the non-serialized pieces or mask them amongst my belongings.
 

· Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer
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123,814 Posts
She realized that she had her backup weapon (a Ruger LCP per source) in her backpack while she was waiting for her connecting flight in Taiwan's main international airport. She promptly notified the airport authority and surrendered her weapon and herself, and was taken into custody..
If she was smarter than the average California cop, she would not have reported her crime to the police, and continued her vacation unarmed.

She would have field-stripped that gun and quietly disposed of it, into several different trashcans, and proceeded to leave the country as planned.

Purchase feminine hygiene products in multiple restrooms, buy food or drinks at various snackbars if possible, to obtain multiple containers and wrappers for the trash into several trashcans.

A foil-wrapped Moon Pie would hold the LCP's frame.
A Tootsie-Roll wrapper would hold the barrel and a half empty can of RC Cola would hold all 6 rounds of .380 ammo.

Whatever survives incinerator gets buried in landfill, several days later.:eek:uttahere:
 

· NOT a sheepdog!
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Yep, she violated that one rule.

Never talk to the police.

Oh well. Maybe she'll be home in twenty years.
 

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Just off the top of my head if I did a lot of international travel I might even have a second backpack for traveling out of the nation and my main backpack for work, shopping, trip to the next state, evening at the strip club, etc..
 
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· Registered
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Here's link to a Chinese news site forwarded to me showing a video of her being taken into custody and pictures of her gun/badge. Don't ask me what the Chinese article actually says....

https://udn.com/news/story/7320/2402622
Here is the story ran through Google translate.

There is a film / gun with a plane 13H no one knows the United States policewoman surrendered forgot to return
A-A +
2017-04-14 09:46 United Daily reporter Lu Kerry Rui / real-time reports, the reporter Zheng Chaowen / audio and video photography
United States California policewomen Nell Grant, yesterday from Los Angeles to Taoyuan International Airport waiting for the transfer, take the initiative to inform the carrying bag carrying a pistol, six bullets, and disarmed to the police station, the prosecution late at night after the investigation The United States in Taiwan Association, restricted exit.


The United States California policewomen Nell Grant's guns and magazines and so on. Map / police provided
The policeman surrendered to the police after the police pointed out that the gun is used in the United States on duty, she forget to pay back after work, on the backpack "forgot" and carry out, leave yesterday and his family from Los Angeles Taiwan, to travel to Bangkok to travel, until the Taoyuan Airport ready to transfer only to find.

As the US airport security strict, the police with guns through the United States Los Angeles airport security, the prosecutor a little wonder, Nell Grant to the prosecution, her backpack in the Los Angeles airport must also be security, she also do not know how through the Los Angeles Airport Of the security and was not found. The prosecution said that through the United States in the Taiwan Association to understand the process and then deal with.


Armed with guns into Taoyuan Airport, the US California police Nell Grant show badge. Map / police provided
The police found a backpack with a pistol, 6 bullets, immediately notify the airline ground, The police handle and transfer the peach check.
Nelly Grant, California, 45-year-old police station arrived in Taoyuan International Airport from Los Angeles yesterday morning with her family to travel to Bangkok, Thailand, and at the Taoyuan Airport waiting for a flight to the airline counter. Carrying a pistol, 6 bullets.

When the police handling, the Grament to pay the bullet, but also show the emblem that he is California state police, because the gun is also on duty backpack, forget the back on the plane; as for the Los Angeles airport security clearance, she is not know.

Glent has been screaming how the gun is still in the backpack? She was informed before the transfer of security, the initiative to the airline counter staff told the "backpack with a pistol and 6 bullets," ground crew immediately informed the police handling, Grant immediately backpack a pistol with six bullets to pay To the police.

(AIT) personnel to help deal with, AIT informed of the situation, to help Grament appointed lawyers, because Grament violated the Criminal Law and the guns of the Republic of China, the United States, the United States, Ammunition knife regulations, but automatically disarmed surrender, after the police last night moved to Taiwan Taoyuan District Court Procuratorate investigation.

Prosecutors later last night will be responsible for the appointment of a lawyer, told me to stop the exit, waiting for follow-up investigation.


Armed with gun into Taoyuan Airport, California, the US police Nell Grant. Map / police provided

The United States California policewoman Nell Grant out of the guns show signs emblem. Map / police provided

US California policewoman Nell Grant's magazine with six rounds of ammunition. Map / police provided
 

· Florist
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Many years ago, we were in U.S. airport, waiting to fly out to Barcelona, Spain, for vacation when I went into a panic thinking I had my off-duty with me. A quick pat down of myself revealed I did not have any weapons on me! What a relief!

As for Taiwan, their LE is good people and can be counted on to be practical and reasonable. I think her bigger concern is how her agency will look at this incident.
 
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· Florist
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Who knows how things would play out if she had made it through that airport and into Thailand.
If I had to choose between Taiwan or Thailand, I'd choose Taiwan.
 

· Registered
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When I travel overseas I search my bag three times before I pack.

It's been stressed by my employer that creating an international incident will not be a career enhancing move.

If she had to do it over again I bet she would have flushed the bullets and disposed of/flushed the LCP.
 
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