Sanity check request from a dumb liberal gun enthusiast (that's me)

Discussion in 'Gun-Control Issues' started by Teh_Stone, Mar 8, 2018.

So, am I insane?

This poll will close on Mar 8, 2019 at 5:14 PM.
  1. Completely insane

    76.6%
  2. Not insane

    8.4%
  3. Only partially unhinged

    15.0%
  1. Teh_Stone

    Teh_Stone

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    My intent with this post is not to swat the hornets nest but to have a civil conversation about a practical matter that affects all of us here. My background is growing up in a gun owing family. I shot bow and arrow and bb guns from age 5+, rifles from 7+, and got a shotgun for my 13th birthday. I went to college in a republican district that was attended by mostly republican students from right leaning suburban and rural areas in the state. I own hand guns and long guns today. My favorite gun for target shooting is a WASR-10 AK with iron sights & I regularly shoot clays at a local members only club. I've been reading this forum since 2009 but rarely participate.

    All that being said, I believe that common sense gun control measures will protect the institution for the future, not hurt it. I know some of you feel the same because I've talked to many politically right leaning gun owners who agree, some of whom have large class III collections and whisper to me in a very very low volume. It is a fact that countries with less guns have less gun deaths. It is also a fact that banning guns in the US is neither achievable, practical, nor desirable. However burying our collective heads in the sand to the growing numbers of gun deaths and political pressure for bans of various kinds is not a sustainable strategy if you care about your hobby, your sport, or your rights. The majority of gun deaths are self inflicted by white men (the majority gun owing group) against themselves. No one wants this. We need an achievable and effective gun policy that is not going to start a second civil war yet will contribute to public safety in the country we have, not the perfect country we wish we had.

    As a policy this is what I'm thinking: A license to purchase, own, and operate any semi-automatic firearm that can accept a detachable magazine which can be attached/detached without the use of one or more hand tools. Note: The word ban is nowhere to be found.

    Who would implement and regulate? : NRA firearms instructors are trained rigorously to teach safety and effectiveness. Local Police are instructed in the same way and are taught safety. Both groups are qualified today to teach and certify as safe large numbers of Americans interested in obtaining a license for a detachable magazine semi-automatic (DMSA). That’s right, local & state police and NRA certified civilian instructors would be required to teach citizens a home safety course and target training. Congress would lock in today’s safety and training standards as the minimum standard going forward and would set limits on class pricing (min/max), class size, and the certification of instructors. Police and NRA instructors would charge a fee to cover costs of providing this service. All instructor programs would be required to carry liability insurance that will pay victims of gun deaths in the event that a trainee or graduate of that program intentionally and unlawfully kills themselves or harms another individual using a DMSA.

    How would you prove that you have the license?: Congress would provide funding through the highway funding bill to state DMVs to include a certification stamp on new drivers licenses and ID cards. An addendum type document issued by a DMV would suffice in the interim until a new license is issued or requested to be issued. Using a drivers license would standardize the process for notifying police of the increased potential for a firearm in a car in the event of a traffic stop and would contribute positively to gun owner safety and police safety on all fronts. All shooting ranges would be required to check for the license if someone wants to operate a DMSA on the premises as a condition of their insurance coverage.

    How would the policy roll out?: First, there would be an 18 month window to obtain the license. At first it will simply allow the operation of any DMSA and ownership will remain unlicensed as is current policy. After 24 months, anyone found owning or operating a DMSA without a license would be cited for a violation of the law (misdemeanor subject to surrender/confiscation by court order and fine). It would not be illegal to sell one of these illegally owned DMSAs to a legally licensed individual. Any state to choose to not participate in the program would lose federal highway funding. License validity and renewal would be on the same schedule as a drivers license.

    What is the likely effect?: Safety training should reduce accidental discharge and irresponsible storage which contribute greatly to gun deaths among children. The licensing process will slow down acquisition of the types of firearms most lethal to crowds in a realistic and sustainable way. The licensing process co-opts interested parties like the police, the NRA, insurance companies, and the gun industry and puts everyone on the same side of the table to work toward preventing gun deaths. The insurance part of the process keeps the police and NRA instructors honest and gives a clear path for recourse; any rubber stamp operation will eventually become uninsurable and will not be able to proceed certifying people. Most gun deaths are self-inflicted so instructors will be forced to implement some sort of mental health screening regime in order to identify risks in advance that would result in them becoming uninsurable. The federal government would not be directly involved in mental health screening or registering gun owners.

    The policy does not…

    Ban assault rifles; require a national registration; ban any firearms or any accessories such as stocks or magazines; affect revolvers, most shotguns, or most rifles commonly used for defense and hunting; restrict ammo; change the legal age to purchase a firearm; require the registration of any firearms; require the mandatory registration of all gun owners.

    So, am I insane? Suggested improvements? Something else that achieves the same result?
     
  2. Tickhill

    Tickhill Eternity: Smoking or Non-Smoking

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    It's a given down here that there is at least 1 firearm in the car.
    What, what, what did you say?
     

  3. The Faux King

    The Faux King Built To Spill

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    Tell me what laws or regulations stop criminals from performing criminal acts. I can't think of any.
     
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  4. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    common sense and gun control are in opposition to each other. what's the point of having a second amendment to resist the gov when the gov can control if you have the means to resist them? it's that simple.
     
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  5. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    No thanks.
     
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  6. DNA

    DNA

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    Let's have an honest conversation. Criminals are by definition people who break rules and laws.

    Creating new laws/rules/bureaucracy will not effect them but will only infringe on the rights of lawful gun owners and place additional burdens to gun ownership in this country.

    So here's a solid compromise; MYOB and leave my rights alone.

    Dan
     
  7. Teh_Stone

    Teh_Stone

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    The idea with this is to reduce gun deaths by promoting a safety program for certain types of firearms. This will not prevent criminals from performing criminal acts. This proposal may prevent a person from committing a criminal act with a magazine fed weapon specifically due to reduction in access - criminals may choose firearms that have a lower capacity to affect a crowd simply due to different levels of access (for example most gun deaths and criminal acts involving guns are not at the business end of a class 3 fully automatic gun due to less access to that gun type). This shows that criminals are affected by the types of guns available to them.

    Noted. In the past I would have agreed 100% but I have also noticed the winds of change. The old oak that doesn't bend in the storm breaks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  8. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I bought you a present.

    A7A96C1A-661F-434B-A2BD-9540F61E107C.jpeg
     
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  9. DNA

    DNA

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    2/3 of firearm deaths are suicides. But I'm sure you're aware of that since you're cherry picking stats. You're not gonna stop suicides, just the mode.

    And #2, if you feel the winds changing, feel free to go turn in your guns at the next buy back. Don't think the rest of us are going to give up our rights so you can feel better.

    Dan
     
  10. NAZG26

    NAZG26 Lost in transit

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    FIREARMS are NOT the problem

    [​IMG]

    Mental health, politically correctness, coddling, everyone gets a trophy, and scumbag policies are the problem!!!
     
  11. fwm

    fwm

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    The s
    The secret to it is not gun control. a killer can use poison gas, bacteria, knives, explosives, all simple to acquire and use. No amount of any gun control will stop mass murders.
    The secret is to control access to free kill zones (aka gun free zones)
    As an example, today I had a procedure at KU (a "Gun Free Zone") that caused me to be put out for a little while. As i was leaving, I found my 380 in my coat pocket. I had removed the .40 and the .357 and left them in the car, but forgot I had put the gun in my pocket.
    Point is, for a gun free zone, there was no control of access to someone with a gun.
    If you want to stop mass murders, stop allowing access to mass murders!

    It drives me nuts that since Columbine, no school has changed access to protect students. They put money over safety and then blame the NRA to shift blame somewhere else.
     
  12. Maxw

    Maxw

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    The OP needs to read the Magna Carta and the Federalist Papers to begin with followed by "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Then reread his proposal
     
  13. maxmanta

    maxmanta

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    I voted not insane b/c there are myriad metrics to gauge one's political stance by. Gun policy is only one of them.
     
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  14. BamaBud

    BamaBud NRA Life Member

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    Sorry. I don't reply to trolling posts.

    Go somewhere else.
     
  15. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    how does believing a male is a female rate on the sanity scale???
     
  16. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    "Common Sense" when used in conjunction with "Gun Control" is actually a euphemism for the word "MORE"

    eu·phe·mism
    ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm/
    noun
    noun: euphemism; plural noun: euphemisms
    1. a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or direct when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing. (like telling the truth)
    We already have gun control and it isn't working, and so, we are told, we need MORE. This is like when the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century were told by someone that had bought a bottle of the magic elixir and it didn't work, the snake oils salesman would invariably say that was because the dissatisfied customer didn't use a large enough dosage, so this time, buy TWO bottles instead of one!
     
  17. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    for some reason liberals feel adding "common sense" before something makes it justified. I'd like to see common sense purging of unconstitutional laws and gov behavior
     
  18. awildmanwith1

    awildmanwith1

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  19. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    Tl;dr

    OP lost me with his title.

    I don't support liberals owning guns or breathing oxygen.
     
  20. Teh_Stone

    Teh_Stone

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    I'm aware of this and said so in the very first post, right near the top. Also handguns were used in 69% of firearm suicides. I know it's a long post but NRA defined mental health screening is part of the process. The idea is to re-direct those with issues who want to own and operate the guns we love, so they get help and hopefully won't tarnish the reputation of guns in the process.

    On the contrary - extreme gun control would greatly reduce gun deaths of all kinds as it has in Japan for instance. No one here want's that, not even me, and on top of that it's not even in the realm of possibility.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-...most-completely-eliminated-gun-deaths-2017-10

    Quite a lot of schools in urban and suburban areas have instituted airport style safety checks and man traps as people enter schools. Corporations are gearing up right now to sell even more security solutions to schools that can afford them. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/business/school-security-industry-surges-after-shootings.html