Salt Lake City GSSF

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Don At PC, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Well I see that this match is going on this weekend. Did anyone go? Would anyone like to share comments of their experience at the match? How about some nice pictures of the match and range? Now is the time to show your Salt Lake City area pride.

    Don
     
  2. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    I had hoped to go but life worked against me this year. :sad:
     

  3. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    We are in DC at Sally's house.:)
     
  4. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Do you have all the GSSF Shooters with you???? Must be because no one has posted anything from the match this weekend. Maybe it was cancelled?:wavey:
     
  5. idpadan

    idpadan Just a shooter

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    Shot Saturday morning. The match was well organized and the range is in a great location above SLC. Am guessing Matt from AZ and Taran from CA would probably show up. This match is worth the trip.
     
  6. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Congratulations idpadan; looks like you win all the prizes from this match. After over 100 hits from people looking to read some great reviews and maybe even see some pics, you have been the only person to write a comment about shooting the match.

    Thanks for you taking the time to tell us of your experience. :thumbsup:
     
  7. idpadan

    idpadan Just a shooter

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    Maybe I should have provided more information in my original post but thought more people would chime in. The weather was hot (100 in SLC valley) but not as bad in the canyon where the range is located. Lots of shade and the people were friendly. There were no lines Saturday morning, I took my time and was still able to shoot five guns and be on the road by about 1:30. The GSSF staff said they had the same number of entries as last year so more people must have shot on Sunday. All in all had a great experience, sorry but no photos. Next match Greeley, Colorado.

    See you there,

    Dan
     
  8. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Dan;

    Thanks for your sharing with us. Last year they had 141 total entries. What the bad thing is this year with 149 or less entries they will recieve ONLY the basic 1st place awards in each category. I would have thought they would have read the new prize and awards program and tried to have built up the number of entries for more awards. Check rule 190.34 in the current Vol.1 of the Glock report. They needed 175 or more entries to have the full slate of performance awards (ie: 1st, 2nd & 3rd place). Sounds like they may not really care and that is a shame because having been in that area several years ago I know how scenic it is.

    Oh ------- well Thanks again for sharing with us.
     
  9. JonInWA

    JonInWA

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    Hmmm...whenever in life that I've come across a manufacturer that requires their consumers to be their primary motivating force in achieving specified goals, you'd better have 1)an incredibly good product, which is desired more than any other available, and 2)an incredibly motivated and structured consumer base. While I'm not saying that Glock doesn't fulfull these criteria, I think that something's a bit amiss in their approach vis-a-vis GSSF this year.

    It seems that Glock/GSSF are attempting to place the burden on us to achieve their desired attendance levels at the matches. To me, this may be a bit of putting the cart ahead of the horse. Since a major purpose of the entire GSSF concept is to serve as a marketing vehicle for Glock, perhaps it might behoove them to re-look at how Glock, Inc. could go about achieving higher attendance levels (and presumably, concurrently increasing their sales/market penetration). As has been discussed in several recent threads, reviewing the current awards structure might be a good start.

    Best, Jon
     
  10. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Numbers for Salt Lake:

    113 2002
    117 2003
    176 2004
    177 2005
    141 2006
    This year?
     
  11. idpadan

    idpadan Just a shooter

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    I have always wondered how GSSF counts the total number of attendees at a match - is it by how many individual shooters attend or how many courses are shot? For example, if I shoot five guns am I counted as one shooter or five?

    Dan
     
  12. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    5, and that is where the new awards system gets its info. Each category you shoot is $25 into the pot for that match.
     
  13. Tacomatose

    Tacomatose PFIDude

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    I also attended this match, as I have for the past 3 years. I have to say that I feel part of the reason the attendance wasn't higher is because people looked at last years numbers and realized that without a substantial increase in the number of shooters, there was a very small chance of actually winning something so people decided to stay home. With out all of the random prizes and the 1-4 place prizes, the average shooter doesn't stand a chance and winning is the motivation for many of the shooters.

    The match went very smooth with the help of the wonderful RSO's(myself included;) and the temperature was tolerable. I think we had quite a few more shooters from out of state than we have had in past years.

    Overall, I am a little disappointed with the new prize schedule, and I feel it will be the demise of some of the smaller matches around the country. But we just keep shooting A's and hoping for the best. B
     
  14. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    From "the rules":

    "190.20 Prize Allocation. There will be two classes of awards. “Performance” awards based upon each individual competitor’s winning performance within each Division he or she shoots and “Random” awards based upon the overall size of the match. Random awards will be distributed across the entire match and will not be Division-specific.

    The number of both “Performance” and “Random” awards will directly coincide with the final number of valid match entries completed at that match. Be aware that the 149 entry low end “break point” has been established to roughly provide some but not all of the compensation to the host club and Range Officers for hosting the match and for the (1st place) awards issued to that point. From that point additional entries directly provide for additional Performance and Random match awards. The specific details of exactly what Performance and Random awards that will be issued based upon the overall match size may be found on our website, "gssfonline.com"."

    GSSF has set the awards schedule such that the first things the entries PAY FOR are (1) the Range, (2) the ROs, and (3) (some, not all of) the awards to that point at 149 entries. From that point, entry fees are going into MORE AWARDS, directly proportional to the number of entries.

    NO WHERE in that formula am I seeing anything about GSSF's "profit" in all of this.

    You want more awards? You have to increase your match size to get them. Is that unreasonable?

    The host club is "local". The shooters are "local".

    It is the HOST CLUB's job to get shooters to the match.

    MATCH SIZE IS NOT A GSSF RESPONSIBILITY.

    GSSF can put these matches ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY that it wants to if THEY are not satisfied with the results they are getting.

    Also notice that if the match falls SHORT of 149 entries, GSSF is still on the hook for 8 guns (including the "New Member" drawing gun) and $850 in "1st place" awards.

    Take a look at the results for the Louisiana match. That award set was in fact paid out although the match only drew 84 entries. Tell me GSSF did not take a bath on THAT deal, hmmmm???

    For a match that in six tries has not been able to top 177 entries, I think GSSF is being both patient and generous.

    :worried:
     
  15. Tacomatose

    Tacomatose PFIDude

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    I think Glock has found themselves a new spokesperson.....

    I have completely read through the rules many times but I appreciate you pointing them out. I understand the reasons that they changed the prize schedule, I just don't agree with their reasoning. These matches are local with local people being the majority of competitors, however, these matches bring a lot of people to the sport and in turn sell a bunch of glocks. And to have Glock look at any size match and decide to throw in the towel and move it to another location seems a little like a slap in the face to everyone that participated, and the RO's that VOLUNTEER(not paid). I understand that money talks, and is the ultimate decision maker in these types of events, I just hate to see the smaller matches on the chopping block.

    I personally don't care how many prizes are offered to the competitors, I only brake the glocks out once a year for this match. I shoot to shoot and prizes are just a bonus, but there are quite a few of the people that attend that are just there hoping for a prize, and once those prizes are removed, so are the competitors.

    They did talk about next years match in Salt Lake City and wanted everyone to bring a friend to pump up attendance, so I guess we will have to wait and see how next year turns out. Tomorrow we start rounding up next years competitors. B
     
  16. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    Yes, GSSF COULD move this match elsewhere.

    Please note that they have NOT done so.

    Yet.

    As I said, "patient and generous".

    The question is, what are the LIMITS to GSSF's patience and generousity?

    ;)
     
  17. JonInWA

    JonInWA

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    Norske, you may well be right, but I think you're missing the point. Glock derives a marketing benefit well beyond mere attendance and the numbers of divisions a given competitor shoots in a given match. While Glock is certainly within their rights (it's their game, after all) to expect the GSSF matches to be somewhat self-sustaining, I'm sure that their analysis and business model probably calculates indirect benefits to hosting the matches as well. I belonged to GSSF for a year or so before I actually shot a GSSF match; I enjoyed the vicarious group affiliation and the Glock Quarterly newsletter. During that timeframe, I purchased two Glocks. While I'm impressed with Chris Edwards and Scott Gilbertson, and Donna Bouchard and others within both GSSF and Glock, and I don't doubt their committment to the shooting sport and law enforcement community, there is a corporate bottom line that Glock derives benefits from vis-a-vis GSSF. I would assume that there's more than Glock's mere patience and generosity that serves as a compelling reason for them to perpetuate and encourage new GSSF match venues, somewhat regardless of their specific attendance figures per se. That said, I question their placing the burden of their marketing department on us as shooters and GSSF members, as opposed to a more effective marketing campaign and GSSF awards structure aimed at what I perceive as their primary target audience-entry- to middle-level shooters.

    Best, Jon
     
  18. bloodhound

    bloodhound

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    Well I just got on line after getting back from SLC. I drove over Saturday from Western Colorado, a short 400 miles from my doorstep to the range...it was a nice match, great facility.

    I was surprised that there were no vendors...It was the first time I had been to that shoot, I was expecting something on par with the Greely match...food and merchandise venders...nope...well I had water with me, and the range was so nice, with lots of shade, the temp was not an issue.

    Very friendly folks and lots of fun...too bad there wern't more folks able to make it...its about 45 min further than the trip to Greely for me, but it was worth the trip.

    No pics...sorry I forgot my camera in the 4 AM departure from the house.

    I spent the night, and watched some of the action on Sunday, and then hit the new Cabellas on the way back to Colorado...all in all a great weekend.
     
  19. BCarver

    BCarver CLM Millennium Member

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    Norske,

    I disagree that the attendance at a GSSF match is the sole responsibility of the host club. In most cases where a new club is hosting GSSF, they do not know that the attendance will be their responsibility.

    In my opinion, if GSSF matches were promoted in the local newspaper a couple of weeks before the match, the "word" may spread and help populate the roster at the matches. Most sports writers are always looking for something new to write about. Perhaps a "standard" match announcement could be mailed to each host club prior to the date of the match and the distribution to their local newspaper become part of their responsibility?

    GSSF has become a very popular shooting venue over the years but remains to be promoted or advertised in gun magazines such as Guns & Ammo, American Handgunner, Front Sight, etc. Glock has ads already in those magazines but nothing is mentioned about GSSF. It would be great to hear from GSSF "why GSSF is not promoted by Glock". Unless you are a member, you don't get a Glock Report to know about GSSF. If GSSF is advertised, I haven't seen the advertisement. Has anyone seen GSSF advertised anywhere but online?

    I agree that the host club has some responsibility in growing attendance but I feel that they should "partner" with GSSF not be solely responsible.

    Just my .02 ;)
     
  20. HeGlock

    HeGlock flyshooter

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    My wife and I shot on Sunday. The local RO's were great folks and we never waited in line at a single stage. All their encouragement helped my wife to a preliminary high lady spot.

    The attached picture was the bay for GLOCK the Plates. As you can see the range is on the side of a mountain...talk about a backstop!

    Park City ski area has added an Alpine Coaster!