Saiga 7.62x39 rifles

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by emt1581, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    I'm looking at the Saiga and I'm curious 1) If it takes regular AK mags or JUST Saiga mags and 2) If it is able to be converted just like the Saiga 12 where a dremmel and a new trigger along with a pistol grip turns it into an AK...?

    How are these guns...reliable or hit/miss? Good value?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  2. space_weazel

    space_weazel

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    They are the only way you will get a Russian built AK, they convert similar to the S12's, and they are well worth it because of the Russian cold hammer forged, chrome lined barrel alone.

    I have one in 7.62x39, 308, and 12ga all are excellent weapons, all have been converted.

    "Stock" they can only legally accept the >10 round mags post conversion they can take the standard capacity saiga mags, or you can install a bullet guide and do a tiny bit of filing, and use any standard AKM magazine.
     

  3. CnRnut

    CnRnut

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    I have 6 Saiga's,will have more in the future.
     
  4. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    As far as Saiga's being awesome guns, my S12 sucked!! I couldn't get it to fire more than 2 rounds without jamming. I traded it to someone that didn't mind working on it to fix it.

    But I'm guessing an AK is an AK...

    I'm confused about mags...out of the box, can it take normal double stack AK mags or does something need to be done to the mag well/gun to do that?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  5. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    The Saiga is a new AK, made in Russia. Other AKs are likely used when you buy them. But the Saiga is factory brand new. It comes with a target shot from the factory, and a statement of group size. Mine runs reliable and groups about 3" at 100 yards.

    The mags are double stack, but are slightly different. During the Clinton era, there was some laws made about not importing assault weapons (different law than the assault weapons ban). The Saiga got around that law by having a sporter stock, and not accepting the AK magazine.

    I don't know the particulars of the difference, but as some have said, some fiddling could make the AK mags fit. I'm not sure if it is legal or not to put the AK mags into the Saiga. I've seen discussion about having to change out some Russian parts with USA parts, in order to make it legal.

    Guys will talk about that law matter of factly, as if it is gospel. But I'm saying I have not seen any cases decided on whether the unaltered Saiga can hold the AK mags legally or not.

    Personally, the main reason I bought the Saiga is because I like the sporter stock.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  6. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    I understand. So out of the box, no, they can't take regular AK mags. But with some fiddling, they can. The legality is another question but not a huge one as evidenced by the lack of any cases.

    I know I did a search on the gun on GT and someone had one for sale with AK mags and an AK mag inserted...so I know it can be done. But again, the question is...what must be done so they accept AK mags?

    Thanks!:)

    -Emt1581
     
  7. Messer

    Messer

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  8. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Thanks for that link. I used the same page to convert my Saiga 12 last year. Good page!!

    However, they mention the "bullet guide" or "bullet feeder" on the initial blue page but on the red pages, all that's said in reference to getting standard AK mags to fit is filing down the mag release ever so slightly until the mags lock into place correctly...nothing about any additional parts for the mag well/etc.

    So I'm a little confused still at what is actually required. :dunno:

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Let me clarify. The lack of cases that I'm aware of. And I'm not a lawyer. There may or may not be cases out there. I just haven't heard about them. So, I'm not sure about the actual laws and how they are being applied with this regard.

    I only use 10 round Saiga magazines. And 5 rounders for hunting, to be NYS compliant.
     
  10. cgjane

    cgjane

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  11. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Right. I understood where you were coming from. ;)

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  12. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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  13. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Any other thoughts on this gun??

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  14. GerryV

    GerryV

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    You will need to install the bullet guide in order to use AK mags. Also, you'll have to either file each one of your surplus mags or just file a little from the mag release on the weapon itself. The below link will provide all the info you need.

    http://www.dinzagarms.com/downloads/bg_install.pdf
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  15. space_weazel

    space_weazel

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    And I will reiterate matter of factually that the use of a magazine larger than 10 rounds with out replacing 5 or 6(if you thread the barrel) US made parts(and only certain one count) IS ILLEGAL, you can choose to risk being caught but that is the law.

    To use standard mags you need to file down the top of the mag catch to lower its engagement point, additionally to ensure reliable feeding you need to install a bullet guide which can be purchased here http://dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/saiga_762x39.html

    As to your S12 you should have shot the gun first realized it was one of the lemons that came out of the factory and sent it to CGW for FREE and gotten the FREE state side repair of the gun, (just as you should do for the Saiga 7.62x39 if you choose to get it) before you did any conversion and voided the warranty.

    ETA: 10 round mags pertain to the importation regulations. In this case changing the gun from its "import configuration" changes its legal status and subjects it to a section of code called 922r
    Easy to understand help guide http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html
    Here is the actual US Code you can search for "(R)" as that is the section we are discussing http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/922.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  16. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    But is a Saiga Sporter illegal for importation under 925(d)?


    "(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ".
     
  17. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Here is 925(d)
    http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/925.html

    (d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition - (1) is being imported or brought in for scientific or research purposes, or is for use in connection with competition or training pursuant to chapter 401 of title 10; (2) is an unserviceable firearm, other than a machinegun as defined in section 5845(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (not readily restorable to firing condition), imported or brought in as a curio or museum piece; (3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or (4) was previously taken out of the United States or a possession by the person who is bringing in the firearm or ammunition.
     
  18. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
     
  19. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

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    Pretty sure a saiga has 14 countable parts(unless you put a pistol grip on it, then it has 15) so 4 us made parts will do for 922r if you don't add a pistol grip. add one to everything i've said if you thread muzzle.
     
  20. emt1581

    emt1581 Curious Member

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    So if I picked up one of these rifles...when focusing on 922r...if I replaced the trigger group, trigger gaurd, added a pistol grip, and maybe a stock...if they were all American...that'd make it legal right?

    ...how about adding the bullet guide?...that's an American part right?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581