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Discussion in 'GSSF' started by thegriz18, Feb 18, 2010.
Which one and why?
I'll take the one that's made in America.
I like the Kimber better.
I just seems like a tighter, better fit and finished gun all around.
I have several Springfield 1911s, but I never cared much for the Loaded.
I was waiting for bac to chime in!
So you like the Kimbers. That was my thought too. Now I just need to figure out in what lifetime I would be able to own one.
Well, ultimately, Springfield is better than Kimber when the best of both are compared, but not below $1000, where the the two models in question lie.
Just my opinion. The really nice Springfields start with the TRP, but they're $1300-$1500. I also like the basic GI model, but I can take or leave the Loaded.
Have you also looked at the Smith SW1911?
Its a nice choice in the same price range.
I'll champion the SA Loaded, though not every one of the Loaded packages that has come down the pike has excited me.
Kimber makes 1911-ish objects, not 1911s. The Schwartz FP safety system is a total deal breaker for me, but even if it weren't, the amount of MIM and plastic that Kimber employs on a CLONE would be. Then there is the marginal customer service.
S&W with their external extractor, Schwartz FP safety and "WARNING FIRES WITHOUT MAGAZINE-DUH!" is just heinous. However, their CS blows Kimber's out of the water.
So what if IMBEL makes the SA? You get a steel mainspring housing. You get no MIM in critical misapplications, only on things like disconnectors and other non-stressed parts. You also get a Series 70 style weapon which will have much more comprehensive after market support.
No ghey roll marks either. Just life with the annoying marketing campaign over a name they bought rights to. Best warranty service of the three as well.
I can live with that jingoistic Americana over a Brazilian pistol if I can't have a Colt trimmed out the way I want it. It's worth enduring the dumb marketing to not have to deal with the design headaches built into the Kimbers and S&Ws.
BAC-do you modify your 1911s or otherwise tear them down for detail cleaning?
What is an FP safety? What is a Series 70 system? I know guns, but my 1911 knowledge needs help. Thanks.
The Kimber over the Loaded. BAC is right about the upper end models. The TRP is a great gun. The Gold Combat from Kimber is equally impressive though. BUt, with a SA, you can always have their custom shop do some really nice things to one.
I have no problem with IMBEL, I just don't care much for the Loaded. Never have.
As for detail cleaning, I've done it in the past, but its been a while. I don't put nearly enough rounds through any one gun these days to justify doing it on a regular basis. However, I do clean them after each range session.
The firing pin safety and/or external extractor don't bother me any more than a 1911 being built outside the US.
All three of the 1911s in question use MIM parts. On a sub $1000 1911, they don't bother me.
What about some of the Colt models? I've seen NIB Colts in some shops.
The upper end Kimbers are certainly as nice, or even nicer than the TRP.
Here's my Springfield TRP and Kimber Super Match.
However, Kimber makes nothing remotely as good as the Springfield Custom guns, such as this TGO1.
You can get an XSE in that range, or a little more.
I guess I am different in this thread because after 30+ years of life with 1911s I not only work on my own pistols with Jerry Kuhnhausen's 1911 shop manuals for simple jobs like changing triggers, grip safeties, fitting thumb safeties, etcetera, but I take them all down every year for inspection of their parts and the wear they are sustaining. Unlike bac, I have to put my rounds through about five total handguns since my true passion is for knives.
I took all of the MIM out of my one Springer Loaded. I take the nylon triggers and mainspring housings out of my basic Colts and change the spade grip safeties to beavertails.
Therefore, I don't appreciate the Schwartz safety. It is not the standard. It's not even as simple to work around as the Series 80 firing pin safety.
For the OP, the "Series 70" is basically a 1911 made without a firing pin safety. Technically, if you drop a cocked and locked 1911 from a height, it is possible for its firing pin to strike the primer via inertia. Colt has addressed this problem twice. First, in the pre-War years, one of their staff, a man named Schwartz, invented a firing pin safety that works via the grip safety pushing a rod that activates a part in the slide to unblock the firing pin from moving forward. IMO, it's a rather overcomplicated arrangement.
Colt thought so too, as it abandoned the system entirely despite having rights to it. The current Colt firing pin safety is called "Series 80." This system is actuated by the trigger and involves a much more direct system that only affects the trigger pull if one is trying to get down to a competition level pull weight that would be inappropriate on a defense gun.
Springfield Armory took a more intelligent approach than either IMO. There is not a firing pin system in a Springer. It is like a Series 70 in that regard. What Springer does is use a lower mass firing pin. They took the "9mm firing pin" that is not as large and heavy as the traditional ".45 firing pin" and then made the part out of titanium, to make it even lower mass. Then they added an extra power firing pin spring.
Now, when a round is chambered and the pistol dropped, the gun will not fire via firing pin inertia. However, the hammer striking the firing pin with the imparted work energy of the mainspring will drive it right into the primer without issue. The upshot of Springer's choice means that the widest variety of extractors, (which are different for the Series 80 because of an additional cut out for the FP safety plunger to get to the FP), are available for the platform and nothing interferes with doing either a trigger job nor a grip safety change on a Springer. On a S&W or a Kimber, these jobs are complicated by the extra parts and their fitment specs for proper functioning.
I'd rather live without the more complicated Schwartz, so the only market choices are going full custom, buying a Colt or other 70 or 80 series clone, or buying a Springer.
So my most recent purchase was a Springfield Loaded since I could and did take its small parts upmarket on my own. My next 1911 will be a basic blue steel Colt's Combat Commander, and I'll rework that one too.
That's cool Boats.
I certainly understand where you're coming from.
Is the Colt a better choice than the other two?
I'd take the Colt XSE over any Kimber or SA Loaded. If we were going above this price point, I'd start looking for a Dan Wesson Valor.
You do get the Colt name, which will ensure it holds its value better.
How did you get Rob Leatham to sign that? Or is it his signature grips? I watch his matches and have followed him and he is a great dominant shooter for springfield... Awesome gun man!!!
The TGO1 comes with those grips and a target signed by him.
Leatham test fires each TGO1 that comes out of the Springfield Custom Shop. The gun is incredible.
For a little over 700.00, its hard to beat this...