RMR is slower than iron sights for CCW for most shooters

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers and Lighte' started by kevin1, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. kevin1

    kevin1

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    My main carry gun is a G26 (I also carry a Kahr CM9).

    I bought a G19 Gen5 MOS and was planning to add an RMR, suppressor night sights and after some practice, start carrying it.

    Now I’m questioning my approach. I read an article on firearms news (I believe) where the author was saying that a highly trained shooter can be quicker with a red dot. But most shooters are actually quicker with iron sights.

    Right now, I do have a Venom 3moa on the G19 with factory sights. But I haven’t practiced enough to know if I can become quicker with a red dot. I also know that I will never practice enough to be considered a highly trained pistol shooter.

    Now, I’m thinking that, instead of investing in an RMR for the G19, just move the Venom to my TP9SFX for fun range shooting, and go standard night sights/light on the G19 for carry.
     
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  2. Monkeybomb

    Monkeybomb Resident Misantrope

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  3. mds1140

    mds1140 nothing to see here, move along

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    I agree and have moved my RMR guns to the category of range toy.
     
  4. papercidal

    papercidal

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    I’m much faster with iron sights than a reflex sight but I bet if I had been shooting with a red dot on a pistol for 30years the dot would be much faster (just not a trijicon since the glass is so bad it’s difficult to see through)
     
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  5. njl

    njl Crusty Member

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    When I was shooting at least 2x a week including a weekly match, I was faster with a red dot. When I slowed down my shooting frequency, I found I was both more accurate and faster with iron sights. It's really a matter of training and muscle memory. I no longer have a dot on any handgun other than my MKII.
     
  6. The Father

    The Father

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    7621E794-F57E-46DD-94F1-99DBB6723AD0.jpeg Back to just iron sights after trying the Trijicon on Glock17
     
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  7. oldmick

    oldmick

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    I may be a tad slower with the red dot but I’m much more accurate. It does take time and practice to be good, and see the dot appear as you present the pistol. But I also have co-witnessed iron sights as a back up.

    It took practice, but I’m a believer.
     
  8. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I’m just as fast with a red dot, but a touch more accurate with it.

    April challenge:
    5FCD19A7-FA5E-4BBA-8226-8339A7353117.jpeg
     
  9. okiegtrider

    okiegtrider

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    What he said. [​IMG]
     
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  10. R.B. Riddick

    R.B. Riddick

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    I am tempted, but I have only used handgun sights on sidearms. Added laser/lights (G19 and G43) and I survived.
     
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  11. glowrod

    glowrod Fightin' Fire

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    Quicker/faster doesn't always mean better.
     
  12. Vic Rattlehead

    Vic Rattlehead

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    I’m in the same boat. I’ve been experimenting with a near/far method whereby I draw and fire by simply point shooting at 3’-7’ quickly and then locate and use the red dot at 10’-30’ with a tad more time. I have both eyes open in each scenario. I can put all rounds in a fist sized area with the point shooting up close and pepper a 2”-3” area with the red dot at distance. I’m wondering if this is the best of both worlds in terms of speed and accuracy for a ccw pistol. With irons, my up close is identical, but my distance group opens up a bit.
     
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  13. nevernuffglock

    nevernuffglock

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    What’s sort of dumb about the whole thing, is the chances of anyone ever having to use a handgun in a defense situation slim. Astronomical, and most shootings happen within 3-7ft? Then on top of that, you turned a cheap 4-500 dollar Glock into a 1000 plus investment. I have situations where I can’t carry, in MY case I can’t imagine leaving a grand sitting in my car. Even for a “range toy” that’s a lot of money sitting in a safe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  14. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    not true. at first the RMR is slower, but the more you train with it the faster it becomes and eventually becomes faster than iron sights.

    Unknown.jpg
     
  15. Burncycle

    Burncycle

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    I haven't noticed it being any slower, but most people tend to hunt for the dot. I find that if you pretend the optic isn't even there and present your irons as normal, the dot comes to you.

    The variable is when to transition from front sight focus to threat focus... if you're breaking the shot immediately upon extension and acquisition of iron sight alignment / sight picture, go ahead and do that first one with irons as if you didn't have a dot, and transition to threat focused immediately thereafter -- by this point the dot should be on your front sight.

    If you're not breaking the shot immediately, present irons as normal, and then threat focus once your dot comes into view prior to breaking the shot.

    If you're a point shooter... I guess just use the force? Maybe a laser would be a better option...
     
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  16. kevin1

    kevin1

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    This is a good video about the pro/cons of the read dot.

    I hadn't though about the threat focus benefits of the RDS. At the same time having your RDS fogged up and preventing the use of iron sights is pretty scary....


     
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  17. Lowcountry_Glocker

    Lowcountry_Glocker

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    I have a friend who shoots a lot of competitions, he swears by the red dot and I trust him. says it is way faster than irons for him, which I do believe with how much he shoots.

    I toyed with the idea of adding a red dot to a G32 or 29 for carry but have since moved on. I carry a gun 24/7, at work and off... if it's nothing but night sites on duty, it's the same off... I'm much more likely to have to shoot someone at work and I am in no way risking having that different muscle memory present itself. same reason I carry nothing but GLOCK... familiarity of arms.

    only thing I change up on/off duty is caliber (40 to .357sig). if we ever switched from GLOCK, god help me, I'd likely change my off duty too.
     
  18. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    Aaron Cowan (Sage Dynamics) has produced several videos on RDS advantages


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVbsmNI14Q


    including use of RDS when it's completely blocked


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn3Jd3XTIQ8


    he even has a video where the sight is fogged
     
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  19. Dynactus

    Dynactus

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    Still trying to understand the value and use of an RMR pistol?
    Come on man. You gotta get up to speed.
     
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  20. Mister X

    Mister X

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    I know all the tactical instructors love them and will charge you big bucks to learn "essential" skills only they can teach you, but considering the close distances that nearly all civilian defense scenarios occur, I just don't see a red dot being of any practical value. In fact, sights won't likely be a factor at all. An RMR is relatively expensive and does provide a bit more leverage for a bad guy trying to disarm you in contact range. It's your money and the context of why you want it is what matters.