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Right to own and bear arms?

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by Kiddo, Dec 26, 2004.

  1. Kiddo

    Kiddo

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    Hi BoGs! Medyo matagal na ako d nagpopost. My question is that, meron ba tayong right to own and bear arms, like the 2nd ammendment ng US constitution? Is owning and carrying firearms part of our rights or is it just a privilege to us?
     
  2. cebuboy

    cebuboy toy soldier

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    as far as i know, nope. we do not have the right to keep and bear arms. we are only privileged to have them.
     

  3. CBRGlocker

    CBRGlocker

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    Believe it or not, here in Illinois, it's illegal for some towns to own guns! We are one of a few states where there is still no option for the concealment liscence.

    True, the second amendment clearly states the right to bear arms but some government officials in Chicago will fight to the end to keep that from happening.
     
  4. rhino465

    rhino465

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    While it may make little difference in practice, in my opinion all adult humans who have not proven themselves to be a current danger to others (like violent felons) have the inherent human right to own, possess, carry, and use whatever weapon they need to defend themselves.

    The question arises as to whether or not a law abiding citizen in a specific jurisdiction is able to exercise that right with incurring some sort of penalty.

    Governments do not grant or create rights. We are all born with them and we have them unless we do something to abrogate those rights. The only thing governments can do about rights is either recognize and respect them, or use force/coercion to prevent people from exercising those rights.
     
  5. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    There is no American-style RKBA enshrined in the Philippine Constitution.
    It is literally by Administrative sanction that Filipinos can own firearms for home defense, and by special privilegethat individuals under outstanding demonstrable threat are given permits to carry.

    Not too long ago, carry permits were summarily suspended by the President, although it was a suspension by public speech and not an Executive Order, which the implementing agency (PNP-FED) acted on.

    The suspension was challenged in court by former Solicitor General Frank Chavez. A lot of people laughed at him, given the way that law is secondary to politics as a determining factor upon anything in this country. What they didn't understand is that wily old Frank had a different objective in mind: he forced an SC ruling on the constitutionality of the Presidents manda, and the SC came back with a decision that expectedly favored the President, but the decision clearly laid out in black and white:

    1. Filipinos have a statutory right to own and keep firearms.
    2. Filipinos have a right to carry, but only UNDER THE IMPLEMENETING RULES of PD 1866.

    Given the prevalence of violent crime today, the requirements under said implementing rules as implemented by the PNP are chiefly a matter of documentation and the substantial cost of obtaining it (the actual carry permit fees are minimal). A carry permit can thus be availed of by almost any able, adult Filipino with a clean record, a firearm permit, and a willingness to provide the requirements.

    The absence of any RKBA clause or amendment attached to our Constitution(s) is the mostly a carryover of the policies of our colonial masters, the Spaniards, and the Americans. I wonder what life would have been like if a Constitutional Convention were to work with only Filipino interests and culture for a reference. Given the number of times we've blown the opportunity, I'm not sure we can afford yet another rewrite.



    hth.
     
  6. brawnless

    brawnless Junior Member

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    Any figures regarding the actual and overall cost of a PTC? The rules governing this seems too restrictive. eg. requirements of a PTC seems to revolve around the idea of impending danger (death threats) and not around the prevalence of violent crimes.
     
  7. Kiddo

    Kiddo

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    Are PTCs really that cheap? Before the ban was implemented, the price was P8,000 for a PTC, all taken care of by the shop. I know this includes the charges of the gun shop, but if we were to do it ourselves, i doubt that we could save money, because you would have to make 'lagay' here and 'lagay' there, so they would process your papers.

    Owning firearms is not enough to protect ourselves from crime. If there is no PTC, then our firearms are limited to our homes, and for those who go to work everyday, only about 1/3 or 1/4 of our time is spent at home. Most crimes nowadays happen on the streets and not at home. I doubt that our PNP can protect all of the Filipinos on the streets. If the government cannot protect us, the least they could do is to allow us to protect ourselves.
     
  8. mikol

    mikol

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    DITTO ;W
     
  9. brawnless

    brawnless Junior Member

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    PTC is not cheap. Owning firearms does not come cheap either. Firearms here cost more than twice in the US. One of the main reasons behind the thick tax levy on firearms is that it is considered to be a priviledge to own one. Another (I think) is to protect the local gun making industry.
     
  10. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    A firearm license, for home defense use, carries receipted fees totalling only PhP4250.oo (about US$78). This is for paper processing fees, a gun safety seminar, a cannabinol/methamphetamine drug test, neurological test, and a truckload of background checks on the national, provincial and miunicipal level.

    It's the burden of setting aside precious time to chase down many of these background-check documents that raises the cost of a permit. Typically, one files for a piece of paper after waiting in line two hours, coming back in three days and waiting in line again to inquire if it's ready, and multiply this by the number of government offices to deal with, the hot climate, and the road traffic involved. Most people hire a person to chase down all these documents on your behalf. It is not unusual to pay someone PhP2,000 to PhP4,000 ($35 to $70)to do this stuff for you. Your total outlay for a firearm permit usually comes to around PhP6,000, renewed every two years or so.

    With all that done, then you can opt to carry, if the Police Chief will let you.

    Getting a PTCFOR (CCW) brings receipted fees to the tune of PhP 4250.oo (about US$78) --sound familiar? Once again, there is the difficulty of chasing down more stringent requisites... but it's grease money that pads total outlay to PhP11,000, renewed yearly. The CCW permit is meant for individuals under grave threat abroad... but a lot of fellas just wanna pack, and trot out generic/imagined threats that have never realistically come within ten blocks of them. So, their assignees throw up a lot of affidavits and whatnot to create a 'grave threat' argument in the hope of winning approval, and probably apply a lot of grease in the process.

    It's sad that probably nine-tenths of all licensed private firearm owners have no real safety training (the gun safety seminar is a joke), and even fewer of those with carry permits need or deserve them. Heck, I though I was fairly well-grounded in safety, until I found myself in a brief lapse, endangering EyeCutter. How much worse someone who doesn;t care about safety at all, and is incurably enamored of macho posturing? Lots of nutcases around using licensed carry pieces to kill people whom they THINK have looked at them crosseyed.

    Has it come to the point where the sheer number of irresponsibly-owned and irresponsibly-carried firearms is a real and present danger compelling all to own and carry themselves? What a joke.
     
  11. Kiddo

    Kiddo

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    I totally agree with horge. It is sad that a number of gun owners are not really qualified to handle firearms. Instead of having all sorts of background checks which are totally useless anyway since its usually just all grease money, they should invest more time and effort to improve the gun safety seminar. They should also require gun owners to take a refresher course, probably every time they renew their license. Some people seem to think that owning a firearm is enough to detere crime. They just get their PTC, pack their guns and think that nothing is going to happen to them. They should include a basic handgun shooting course aside from the safety seminar, and encourage gun owners to practice shooting.
     
  12. PMMA97

    PMMA97 TagaBundok

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    What they should do is to License the Individual and not the Firearm :(
     
  13. Kiddo

    Kiddo

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    Thats one of my concerns too. They should adapt how the US does their CCW, they license the individual, and not the firearm, to cut costs and make it cheaper for the average gun owner.
     
  14. Alexii

    Alexii Janeway Forever

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    I couldn't agree more. The first human cave-dwellers carried clubs and spears to hunt and protect themselves. To deprive man of reasonable means to defend himself is going against, to say the least, the neuro-programming hardwired into our system since we discovered fire.
     
  15. mikol

    mikol

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    Since GMA announce the indefinite suspension of the PTCFor late last year, crimes raises in different parts of Cebu City. Me & my wife already experienced some of those when we got rob by 4 teenagers in their late 20's last Jan. 21, 04. Two of the culprits have guns, and the other two have butterfly knives with them.

    I was just very thankful that we are not hurt in spite of the situation when, the other guy who pointed his gun to my wife already told her that he will shoot her if she will not give her handbag. That time I was really thinking of resisting but was also not able to do so 'coz I don’t have anything with me to defend ourselves with.

    But now I am sure that this coming Jan. next year I’ll be spending a good holiday season back there in my home town in Cebu. you know why I am so sure about it? 'Coz there is already a vigilante group doing summary execution of this robbers, snatchers, thieves & other menace of our society. ;z

    If it is true that it's the group that was founded by Mayor Tomas Osmena just a week ago who are doing this summary execution, then so be it. I will even support him in doing so. If they can’t protect us tax payers, then it's just right for them to lessen those possible treats that we will be facing everyday when we step out in our door step.;) peace to the human rights advocates out there.;f
     
  16. BinLurking

    BinLurking Your Phone

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    Teenagers in their late 20's? - they must be reallllyyyyy baaaaddd teenagers. Is this why they stay in mommy and daddy's house in their thirties because they're still considered teenagers in their late twenties? ;z
     
  17. 9MX

    9MX Rei!

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    Looks like the Davao Death Squad has branched out to Cebu;z
     
  18. attyjpl

    attyjpl Dark Justice

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    Order in the Court!!

    they should branch out here in manila! ;z
     
  19. PMMA97

    PMMA97 TagaBundok

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    There is no death squad here in Olongapo ;)
     
  20. brawnless

    brawnless Junior Member

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    lots of young criminals... does vigilante killings do good or is it only a temporary "solution"? education does seem to be a nice but long-term alternative.