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Rifle optic advice please...

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by glocks4us, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. glocks4us

    glocks4us

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    This is my first scope purchase, at first I was thinking of a red dot, but after doing some reading I see that many people recommend a 1-4x or 1-6x optic. Since I will be doing some relatively up close practicing, the 1x with an illuminated dot seems pretty good. I am not planning to do much precision shooting at really long range, so I would think 4x or 6x would be enough.

    It seems like a lot has to do with your budget, I see ones for $300 and $3000, with lots in between. I would like to spend under $1k but can go a bit over for something that is worth it. So that is my main question, how much do I spend to get noticeably better optics? If something costs twice as much but is only a little better then I probably would stick with the lower priced one.

    I have read the Vortex Razor HD gen 2 is pretty good, and I like the strange color of it, but that is $1400. Is it worth it? Something else almost as good for less?
    Thanks.
     
  2. GP4L

    GP4L

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    There's a bunch of solid options in the low-variable power arena for >$1k. The Razor is a nice product. If you practice a proper/consistent cheek weld, so you get your eye in the right spot behind the lens, they're plenty fast for close up work at 1x. Just keep in mind, most of the variables will weigh in around 2 pounds with a mount. I personally reverted back to micro red dots / HWS, as they're around 1-1.5 pounds lighter (depending) and simply grabbing my 3x magnifier from my bag, and slapping it on if I need it.

    IMO, for ~ $1000, I think you'd be better served with an EXPS-3, or an Aimpoint micro, and a Burris AR Tripler (inexpensive, but decent 3x magnifier on a QD mount), since you say most of your shooting will be at closer distances.
     
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  3. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    I got a Strike Eagle and it's great! Under $350 from time to time. Rides in a LaRue QD mount.
     
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  4. Tbags

    Tbags

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    If weight is a concern, check out the Leupold line as they are likely the lightest in the market starting around 9oz and up.
     
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  5. hardluk1

    hardluk1

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    I have a 45* mount and a extra reflex optic if I ever decide to mount it and I got the try a buddy's higher priced bushnell elit something 1-6 scope a few years back , nice optics for sure and would serve most people needs well and I see primary arms has a 1-8 scope now . I have used a 2.5-10 for on a 308 since '78 as my deep woods rifle for hunting and decided to go that route and went with a Nikon prostaff 7 2.5-10x42mm bdc . Bought when they came out a few years ago and I have been pleased with it . Price is only 299 and there Spot On ballistic technology really does get you close with bullet placement at longer ranges . When a neighbors dogs barks up the hill I know there are deer in our hay field and I can sit on the porch and spot those deer in a field at 100 at 125 yards with this scope under a clear sky with only a 1/4 moon . Would have been nom problem to drop a deer .

    It has enough high end power for 300 yard heart shots on game from coyote to deer to yet still allows you pick a shots thru branches along a thick creek bottom with a 2.5 setting .

    http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/riflescopes/prostaff-7-2.5-10x42-bdc.html
     
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  6. Brass3

    Brass3

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    Uhhhhhoooooo here we go :couch:
     
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  7. Gdirty5

    Gdirty5

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    The Vortex Razor HD is absolutely AMAZING, with edge to edge clarity, and very crisp picture. For the money it's a good buy, but for less money, you have other options like the new 1-6 viper PST II. I like my Trijicon TR24 but it's only a 1-4X. There's some new accupoints and accupowers.
     
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  8. Brass3

    Brass3

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    I've had more than a few dealers recomend that scope.
     
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  9. Alabusa

    Alabusa

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  10. MisterHelix

    MisterHelix

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    The Trijicon TR24G can be found for under $1000.

    I've also handled a Steiner 1-4, pretty nice for ~$450.
     
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  11. crockett

    crockett

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    The Razor HD gen 2 is a great scope for its price bracket, but it is also very heavy, at exactly ‎25.2 oz.

    If you might ever consider some 3-gun fun, I suggest keeping an eye on the weight.

    IMO several high dollar 1 - 6 scopes are well worth the premium. When I was in your boat, I decided for the Kahles K16i. Kahles is THE rifle scope inventor, and made in Austria. They bought Swarovski a while back and use their glass, which is the best scope glass there is.

    If you get a chance to compare the Kahles with a Razor HD or even the Bender&Schmidt equivalent, you will see right away the difference. The Kahles has the largest field of view, and the amount of details you will be able to see through it, is simply unmatched. Weights only 16.9 oz, which is half a pound less compared to the Razor.

    Field of view Razor: 115.2 - 20.5 feet
    Field of view Kahles: 126.9 - 20.1 feet

    The Kahles also comes with a 10 year warranty.

    [​IMG]


    http://www.kahles.at/us/products/

    https://shop.brownells.com/optics-m...1-matte-black-sku100024500-102790-200756.aspx



    Here is a really GREAT video comparing 5 of the best 1 - 6 scopes, with video through the scope, and including the Kahles K16i:


     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  12. MarkCO

    MarkCO CLM Millennium Member

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    Kahles, Steiner, Leupold, Trijicon and Vortex (NOT the Strike Eagle) all make very good optics in the 1-4 and 1-6 space and you can get a lot of scope these days for under $1k. No reason at all to go red dot and tripler with all that weight and complexity...basically a system obsoleted in the last 5 years or so.

    A few things to think about. 1. Range you want to shoot today, then double it and pick a reticle that works there. 2. Illumination is more about speed up close than target contrast slow out far, so pick one that, at full mag, gives a good amount of visibility for the illumination at speed if that is important to you. 3. Parallax/Eyebox issues on most of the cheap stuff (like the Strike Eagle) occurs past 200 yards.

    The new Burris RT6 is the sleeper that has excellent glass, passes the box test and parallax tests with flying colors and it still beats most of the optics in class that cost twice as much. Built in mag lever as well. I used to suggest the MTAC 1-4, but the RT6 has likely obsoleted that optic and probably the Steiner 1-4 as well. Stepping up, the Kahles is excellent and past that, I would go back to Burris with the XTRII 1-8.
     
  13. Alabusa

    Alabusa

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    Kahles is fine glass. I don't have one of their scopes, I'm sad to say, but I do have a set of their 8x42 binoculars that are spectacular.

    As for the glass they and most high end scopes use is acquired through Zeiss which is the world's premium supplier of precision glass.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
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  14. crockett

    crockett

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    That is not correct, at all.

    1.) KAHLES invented the riflescope as we know it today. In fact, they produced their first riflescope in 1898.

    2.) Kahles was sold to Swarovski in 1974. When Friedreich Kahles died in 1977, Kahles became a branch of Swarovski Optiks. Since May 1989 Kahles Limited (GesmbH) has been an independent company within the Swarovski group

    3.) Kahles uses Swarovski glass.

    4.) Swarovski glass is made by "Swarovski Optik", part of the Swarovski Group Austria. Swarovski Optik specialises in the development and manufacturing of long-range optical instruments in the premium segment of the market, including binoculars, telescopes (spotting scopes), rifle scopes, range finders and night sight devices.

    5.) Swarovski nor Kahles uses ZEISS glass. You tell an Austrian that Swarovski uses German made glass and they'll beat you up. ;)

    Here a factory tour showing how Swarovski / Kahles makes their glass:




    6.) Most cheap scopes use Chinese glass, most middle ground scopes use glass made in Japan.

    7.) Schmidt & Bender is made in Germany and Hungaria, their glass is made in both locations, but they also don't use ZEISS, which is a concurring German company.

    8.) Vortex, Leupold etc are not high end scope manufacturers, in comparison to EU made scopes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  15. Brass3

    Brass3

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    WOW crockett, your post is most interesting. I have two questions.
    (1)-Why is the better glass made in foreign countries?
    (2)-Why aren't we, heck we make eye glasses?
     
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  16. crockett

    crockett

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    I don't recall ONE scope brand that manufactures its glass in the US. The main problem I see with US manufacturing in general, is the fact that we sold out to China, because the US customer wants his products as cheap as possible and right now, even on credit.

    In European countries most consumers have a totally different approach:

    - They usually don't buy on credit and save the money first.
    - They rather buy a quality product that lasts a life time than cheap Chinese crap that goes out after a number of years.
    - They often don't need products immediately and are used to waiting while saving the money first.
    - They are also used to paying higher prices for quality, this is indeed a tradition and pride.

    All this allows European manufactures to remain focused on in house quality research, development, high quality manufacturing processes, without having to outsource into countries like China or Thailand, unlike most US companies.

    The manufacturing standards in countries like Germany, Austria or Switzerland are MUCH higher because of tradition, 100+ years of experiences, more funds for R&D, higher educational standards for workers and a bunch of other factors you won't find in Asia (not counting Japan).

    For example, I buy all of my tools from Germany, because they are still made there and of much higher quality than this crap made in China (or any other place for that matter). If there is a rare US made quality tool, I'll get that instead to help support our jobs and our middle class.
     
  17. Brass3

    Brass3

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    You are correct, hit a home run here to me anyway.
    Thanks
     
  18. dla

    dla

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    Just from your description - you should get a red dot. The only thing you give up with a red dot is magnification. IMHO of course.
     
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  19. rds95991

    rds95991

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    I have a friend who went inexpensive (<$300) and he was fine with it. Then he shot my rifle with a Zeiss and he was impressed. Even at a lower power, it was clearer and sharper than with his scope set at a higher power. BTW, this scope is almost 40 years old, a Diavari 1.5x6.

    Then I let him shoot my M1A NM with no scope. He shot a tighter group with that than with his scoped rifle.

    I didn't have to say anything, but I think he had a wakeup call. His scope sucked, especially when he shot a tighter group with no scope than with his rifle with a scope.

    Personally, I would see what people are using and ask if you could check it out.

    From experience, for CQB, personally I have Zeiss, Kahles, Schmidt and Bender, Svarowski, and Hensholt. My highest power scope for hunting is a Ziess 3x9 on a 300WM. My highest modern sporting rifle (AR style) scope is a 2x7 on a 7.62.

    I have a long range shooter friend whose opinion I trust who swears by Nightforce for his custom 6.5 Creedmoor for long range shooting so I guess their CQB line should also be good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  20. Kifaru

    Kifaru

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    Red dot, the cheaper the better.

    I’d stay away from expensive optics. You break an ACOG or similar you can’t give the pieces to the armorer and get another one. You own it.

    I use iron sights. I do have a Walmart zero eye relief red dot... It’s so sorry the manufacturer didn’t put their name on it and I can’t remember who made it. But it works.
     
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