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Return to the Wild West or something else?

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Powpow, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. Powpow

    Powpow Double Tap!

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    I know the numbers of CCW's and OC's are rising in record numbers and we may be getting back to the days where most didn't bat an eyebrow when someone carried a weapon.

    At this time, seems a lot of society is labeling us negatively. I think there are just too many people that believe only the Police can OC or CCW. The sheepdogs are outnumbered by the court of public opinion, plain and simple.
    We could expect the worse, but hope for the best until a lot more people take the responsibility of protecting themselves to overtake the gazillion million sheeples which distort why we carry and help to influence the Government\Police to respond in the way they do.

    Looking into my crystal ball to see the future, the shoe will be on the other foot and sheeple will be labeled negatively in public for trying to disarm the majority and Government laws will be 100% pro-carry and Police will only respond when sheeple fall victim. I don't really have a crystal ball, so here is my question: Is this the start of the Wild West or an Armed and Polite Society or something else?
     
  2. kensteele

    kensteele

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  3. Powpow

    Powpow Double Tap!

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    :rofl:
     
  4. Bill Lumberg

    Bill Lumberg BTF Inventor

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    I think we are on the verge of ccw progress stalling or being rolled back due to the proliferation of folks who think that because they can do something, they should do it. The most likely short-term result will be a smattering of new states making it illegal for permittees to carry openly. Given current trends, that will be the first and likely lasting result of the please-notice-me or please-confuse-me-with-police open-carry movement that is currently popular in pockets of the populace.
     
  5. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    Personally, I have found rhetoric like that to be counterproductive and contribute to "society labelling us negatively." This whole sheepdog/sheeple/wolf stuff is deceptive, inaccurate, and really offends a lot of people who view it (somewhat correctly, IMO) as some gunowners insulting them because they choose to protect themselves with something besides CCW and so on. Many that call themselves sheepdogs have no idea what that entails, and many that are called sheeple by the unknowing are quite well prepared to protect themselves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  6. Ironbar

    Ironbar

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    Ditto.
     
  7. Powpow

    Powpow Double Tap!

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    My scenario implies that pro-gun will be the majority, so it would be interesting to see what the majority of CCW'rs really think of OC'g when they step up to the plate to influence the gun laws, instead of the anti's.

    Sheeple (a portmanteau of "sheep" and "people") is a term of disparagement, in which peoplesheep.
    It is often used to denote persons who voluntarily acquiesce to a perceived authority, or suggestion without sufficient research to understand fully the scope of the ramifications involved in that decision, and thus undermine their own human individuality or in other cases give up certain rights. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by a perceived authority figure believed to be trustworthy, without processing it or doing adequate research to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political and sometimes in a spiritual sense.

    A sheep dog or sheepdog may be:

    are likened to
    Nope, I intended to imply it for the most part as it is defined in the dictionary and it's unsettling to me to think they'll go pro-gun if we stop labeling them as they troll on an Internet gun forum.

    More disturbing to me, is your implying the sheeple could protect themselves without a G-U-N since it has always been the great equalizer. Please respond if you can keep the examples to a "gun vs ?" comparison, otherwise don't bother, thank you.

     
  8. kensteele

    kensteele

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  9. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    I think if you do some research you will find that the "Wild West" everybody talks about was a pretty tame time in american history. The big notorious cities like Dodge and Tombstone were really not bad by modern standards.
     
  10. zysus

    zysus

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    W.R.T open carry... I definitely think it should be legal.

    I also think that no-one should open carry in urban areas. It just makes you a target and makes the soccer Moms fidget in their granny-panties. CCW FTW.

    I like the option of Open Carrying out in the country or less populated places. If you are out camping with your friends, why not. Again, you might make yourself a target for trouble makers, but it's less likely because there are less people to see you in the first place.

    Hell if I'm out camping I'd keep a loaded 12ga handy to deal with animals that might happen to cause problems.

    I remember going on a school trip camping in Vermont. I don't recall any of the adults bringing a gun. Even at my tender grade school age I had the good sense to realize that our group probably would have looked mighty tasty to a bear and that I would have felt better if someone had a rifle handy.
     
  11. Garrett Smith

    Garrett Smith

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    I agree.

    Nice to see you ... you haven't been moved to comment recently, have you?
     
  12. Ryobi

    Ryobi SummertimeRules

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    +1 David and Lumberg.
     
  13. BKG-22

    BKG-22 Millennium Member

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    I too saw the headlines on Foxnews this morning and cringed. My gut feeling is that this whole "cram it down your throat" open carry is going to backfire and cause more problems than good. And just like the shall-issue CCW laws have now spread across most of country, the same can go in reverse.

    I don't pretend to be in their situation, but from what I have read, I applaud the objective but am skeptical the right path is being taken to get there.

    Even here in Michigan which is a shall issue state, there is a movement to open carry and it has hit the papers a couple of times now. All the rhetoric and emotion of CCW has now settled and people that so passionately opposed concealed gun carry, really have nothing to squawk about because if it is concealed, they do not even know there is a gun in their presence. So life goes on as usual with little difference in their daily routines.

    But with open carry, they are reminded every time they see someone carrying a sidearm that they are in danger! (at least, that is what THEY think). So instead of the issue quickly evaporating like it did with CCW, this will actually escalate and I strongly doubt the long term outcome will be to our advantage. Just my ten cents. :faint:
     
  14. piebiter

    piebiter

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    I'm happy with CCW...why give "anti-gunners" any excuse to stir things up? I can carry now for self protection and that of my family...I don't need or want the attention of open carry. I agree with ronin.45 in that a lot of our cities are much wilder than the Old West ever was. We have more important issues to deal with in this country than open carry IMHO.
     
  15. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    Oh, I'm quite familiar with the term, and how it is used. I've talked with Grossman at length and am well aware of the conotations. But the definitions don't change the facts, that tossing around the terms is counterproductive to the cause as well as being factually inaccurate many times.

    Sorry to disturb you, but empty and misleading rhetoric is always a bit of a problem, IMO. They are not sheeple, they are people who have chosen an different means of protection. Not carrying a gun no more makes one a "sheeple" than carrying a gun makes one a "sheepdog."
     
  16. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    David and I agree on this.

    PowPow, do you find it productive using what some consider derogatory descriptors when talking with people face to face?
     
  17. Powpow

    Powpow Double Tap!

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    For the sake of getting back onto the subject, I will stop using the word "sheeple."

    However, am I being singled out?

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5274102
     
  18. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    Not by me. I've argued against the terminology several times, on this forum as well as others.
     
  19. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Nope, just asking a question that it seems you do not want to answer; no problem.
     
  20. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider

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    You need to read "Gunfighters, Highwaymen, and Vigilantes" by Roger McGarth. IT is the story of Aurora NV and Bodie CA in the late 1800's. It tells about the times and aboiut crime at those times. The sentence I remember most from reading it is:

    "Women, both prostitutes and Ladies could walk anywhere night or day in the town and never worry about being bothered by anyone." \

    Women would love to be able to say that today. You can read part of the book at the link below.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=DomI6nFC130C Click on Preview this book

    There is also another book you can read part of here about the so called wild west and crime.
    http://www.guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html
    Part of that book is below.

    Women and Crime on the Frontier

    The women residents of Aurora and Bodie, with the exception of those who were prostitutes, rarely suffered from any kind of crime or violence.[28] During Bodie's boom years there were only some 30 violent encounters between men and women, and prostitutes were involved in 25 of the incidents. When women assaulted or fought with other women, prostitutes accounted for 13 of the 17 recorded incidents. Very few of these violent encounters had serious consequences. Only one woman died as the result of an attack—in that case the woman was a former prostitute and her murderer was insane—and only one other was seriously injured.

    Prostitutes unquestionably bore the brunt of the little violence against women that did occur. While "decent" women were treated with the greatest deference, prostitutes were socially ostracized and generally shown little respect. Newspapers often treated the punching or slapping of a prostitute humorously, and the attitude of the police and judges was only slightly better. Men who assaulted prostitutes were usually arrested for their attacks, but their punishments were far less severe than if they had assaulted "respectable" women. The double standard extended even to the graveyard. Prostitutes who died in Bodie were buried outside the fence of the graveyard. Prostitutes were both figuratively and literally outside the pale.

    Nonetheless, even prostitutes do not seem to have been the victims of rape. There were no reported cases of rape in either Aurora or Bodie. Admittedly, rape might have occurred but was not reported. Rape is a crime that has often gone unreported in the past and even today rape victims are often reluctant to report an attack. However, in Bodie, there were two reports of attempted rape (in neither case was the allegation substantiated) and this possibly indicates that had rape occurred it would have been reported. Moreover, there is absolutely no evidence of any sort that rape occurred but escaped the attention of the authorities.

    On the other hand, there is a considerable body of evidence which indicates that women, other than prostitutes, were rarely the victims of any kind of offense and were treated with the utmost respect. Women enjoyed special status, partly because of the morality of the nineteenth century and partly because they were a rare commodity in western mining towns. Grant Smith, a one-time resident of Bodie, recalled: (p.132)

    One of the remarkable things about Bodie, in fact, one of the striking features of all mining camps in the West, was the respect shown even by the worst characters to decent women. . . . I do not recall ever hearing of a respectable woman or girl in an manner insulted or even accosted by the hundreds of dissolute characters that were everywhere. In part, this was due to the respect that depravity pays to decency; in part, to the knowledge that sudden death would follow any other course.[29]