Retired LEO and LEOSA

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by x2501, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    There are a lot of incompetent idiots at departments who have neve read LEOSA, but insist on trying to tell their retirees that they have to qualify through the agency, or renew their retiree ID card.
     
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  2. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    It’s not that easy in some states. As I said , NYS says a qualified instructor had to be currently employed or contracted by a LEO entity to train current officers. A retired guy not currently contracted or employed is not “good to go “ to requal other retired officers here despite their credentials of the past.

    As a general rule, the NYPD does not requal it’s retired personnel. We have to find other means to do so. There are companies who do requals and hire active cops to run a firing range for that day. But the choices are limited or we have travel a long distance to department who will requal us for a fee. It’s worth the trip but it’s a pain but the slots aren’t always available.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  3. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    They are trying to force that on us now. Because the LEOSA instructor has to be an active member , they told quite a few instructors that they can not requal someone with an expired ID card or does not have an current gun permit.
    Again, the powers here are trying to control the LEOSA process.

    I wish they would get rid of the requal requirement and allow other forms of an ID card to meet the statue.
     
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  4. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    We've been 'round and 'round about our agency's retired officer ID/LEOSA/honorably retired officer carry card in reference to it expiring every year. Again, I still travel back each year to my old town to requal with my agency because I know there are officers out there who don't want to play nice JUST because my card may be expired.

    I can qualify here in Comal County with this sheriff's deputy I met, BUT I will have to carry their qualification documentation with my 'expired' ID card. Also this deputy is very knowledgeable on the ins and outs of LEOSA, and I can pass his information on if anyone needs someone who knows his schtuff.

    To add, I carry under the Texas 'honorably retired peace officer' statute so I don't have to worry about LEOSA...until I leave the Great State of Texas. This sheriff's deputy told me that I only have to qualify every two years to carry here retired so that means I can go an extra year with an expired retired officer ID/LEOSA/honorably retired officer carry card. AND as i said, I know I will eventually run into Officer Unfriendly who would rather book than go to the books.
     
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  5. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    That kind of sucks. Our retired IDs last 5 years, and they renew by mail if we so desire. We can do our annual quals either at our old Department or wherever we land. You should have your old agency let the IDs stand apart from your qual documentation. No reason a retirement ID has to be renewed annually.
     
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  6. billorights

    billorights

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    What they had to do with it was when the bill was being written. It could have been better without their objections. They didn't want it at all. What you say is not the way I understood the law as written.
    And yes, it does require that you have the same qualification course that your former dept. has. What I have found however is that from one County to another, the Sheriff does what he wants to do in the case of retired deputies. I worked for a State agency, and it will do nothing for retirees. However, the law would still require that I qualify the same as they still do yearly. Every dept. does different sh*t. The qualification requirement should have been a standardized course that did not require any dept. involvement. And could have been administered by various qualified instructors.
    The current qualification for any CCW is done by instructors who have taken a course to instruct, but they still vary greatly, in content, and in cost as little as $80 and most $150 and up. And is only necessary at first application, and renewal, which is 5 years. If you are a retired LEO, you still have no more freedom to carry than a civilian, except across state lines. My bordering states all recognize my state's CCW so I don't need the hassle of a LEOSA anyway.
    My dept. is afraid of liability in allowing retirees to use its ranges and instructors. And will not issue any documents to show qualification.
    So, yes, the dims and Kennedy f**ked it up real good.
     
  7. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Not just your former agency... EITHER the course your former agency uses OR the standards of the current state you reside in, or if none exist ANY law enforcement agency’s standard in the state you reside in, or by anyone authorized to qual active duty officers in that state.

    Randy


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  8. jetflier1989

    jetflier1989

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    I had a similar situation last year. But in my case I actually sent the necessary paperwork in well ahead of time and it was misplaced at the PD (I live 1,300 mi away). Because I was involved in an off duty shooting years ago where I was in the right and still sweated through the investigation. I chose not to carry until I received my new ID card. My advice is to do what makes you feel comfortable.
     
  9. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    They would just have to update the web site, your record that the QR code points to. That’s brilliant, actually, the ID combines ID and always current qual info without having to change/renew the ID annually.

    Only drawback is if you have someone else qualify you, would have to carry their proof along with your ID.

    Randy


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  10. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    It was two cards at first, but the second and subsequent years, they combined it into one do-all card.

    My yearly process has been to fill out a couple of forms in the presence of an administrative assistant, who notarizes the forms which I attest to not being bad or crazy. I leave, and they tell me to wait a day or two before agency head signs off after background check is completed. I get called to go to our range and qualify on the current course of fire -50 rounds. Range master signs form which I take to our records section where an evidence technician prints me out the card on the ID card printing machine. I give her my expired one in return, and I’m out of there.

    Of course I’d like to do this from the comfort of my current location, but I’m sure they want us to continue jumping through their hoops to limit any possible liability.
     
  11. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    Keep your old “cards” if it’s a photographic” ID issued by your agency. Expired or not, it will meet that part of the statue. The second part of the yearly requal can be done by anyone qualified to qualify active officers in your resident state by any standard of any department in that state. My state is being a —- for saying who can requal us. A guy who qualified us for years retires and suddenly he is not qualified? New York State says so for its requal course. An active cop is not required to requal at all by the LEOSA statue at all.
    Other departments are intentionally not issuing photo ID so it’s retirees can’t use LEOSA.
    I hope we can get changes to LEOSA to stop the BS.
     
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  12. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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    If a mope can get by being 60 days expired on a car registration, I don’t see why it would be an issue. Even if you had to shoot someone, and even if you got charged, it’s a very reasonable defense. For a retired cop carrying under LEOSA, I’d view it much the same way. It’s only reasonable for what is going on right now.

    Personally if it were me I’d try to find a way to get it done if at all possible. If it’s not, I’d still carry, and hope I don’t need to use the above defense.

    100% chance I wouldn’t give you a hard time, as long as you are expired because of the crisis we find ourselves in. If you are like 6 months expired you are likely to run into issues, because in my opinion that’s not reasonable. Just my opinion.
     
  13. ultra45

    ultra45

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    There are plenty of legit places to get LEOSA qualified, in NY. The best, IMO, is Rockland Co. You get a LEOSA card that can be verified 24/7, 365. Why is that preferable? God forbid, you are involved, maybe unconscious, after an accident or incident, an agency can determine your status and notify your old DEPT or family members. Far better IMO, than calling a private individual or range after hours. Again, just my opinion.

    The Expired Date on a retirees ID card is not a factor and that’s per the Shield Desk, at 1PP. Your retirement date is on the back of the card. The expiration date on the front of the card, is the expiration date ON THE SERIES OF CARD, IF YOU WERE STILL ACTIVE. When you retire, your expiration date will be the year presently displayed on active cards, with retirement date on the back.

    I see where the expiration date on retirees cards is confusing, they could have done better by leaving it off, but, “The Job”, is too lazy cheap and insensitive to differentiate between active and retired, to do so.

    Any retired MOS can validate with a call to the Shield Desk and if you are questioned by an outside agency, have them call.

    Stay Safe
    874XXX
     
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  14. 1L26

    1L26

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    My former agency (California) also issues (2) cards. One is the 5 year Honorably Retired ID that allows me to carry in California as long as the ID is valid. The LEOSA covers me in my interstate travel. In Nevada, where I am currently living, the local Sheriff's Department where you reside will qualify retired coppers under LEOSA and they issue a qualification card from that agency. When I retired and moved to Texas I got a LTC just to expedite my firearms purchases. Prior to that my purchases were always delayed. Apparently the delay was related to my security clearance and having the LTC alleviated that problem. So currently I have the LEOSA from my former S.D., the LEOSA Qual card from a Nevada S.D and my Texas LTC. So I guess I'm covered...
     
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  15. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    I love the tax number. They are higher than 960s now

    I agree the expiration date means nothing in most situations. Some requal places were told not to requal unless they had an up to date ID card. They were also told not to requal someone who doesn’t have a current carry permit in addition to LEOSA.

    Rockland County was one of the first to requal retirees but it’s a hike for me and my current schedule makes a requal on a Saturday difficult for me at this time.

    Other departments and places in upstate New York do requal retirees and aren’t as strict control freaks as they are “downstate”.

    The two companies that requal down here that I have dealt with also have a 24 hour verification system on line. (And I still have the telephone number to operations desk to verify my previous employment-lol). These two requal places are getting instructions from both the state and local departments as to who and how they can requal people and the records they must keep. They even record the firearm used to requal as proof of compliance for the SAFE act exception for our above 10 round magazines.

    I have to travel thru NJ more often than I would like to and will go unarmed if I can’t requal under LEOSA. Something I do not wish to do especially now.

    The licensing section has told us with LEOSA they can not remove our firearms if our permit expires but we can not purchase new firearms. We also don’t have to voucher our firearms when retiring while we wait for a carry permit from our home county licensing division( for NYPD cops living outside the city) and give a LEOSA requal card as one retires. ( they use the date of the last requal as an active officer on the card) . It’s additional proof of retiring in good standing so I kept the original card they gave me.
     
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  16. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    The stricter policy came out after my retirement. At first, I just qualified with our range and then gave signed paperwork of qualification to our Records section who would have the evidence tech print the card.

    Even though it is a major hassle for me to trek back and jump through the new policy’s hoops, I fully understand the agency’s point of view.

    I’m pretty sure, if I was agency head, I’d want an expiring card which forces retirees to attest to their physical and mental fitness to carry as well as their staying out of trouble on a yearly basis...or at least on a 2 year cycle.
     
  17. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    I guess one of the advantages of working for a large agency. With thousands of retirees, ain’t nobody got time for that. It would be a full time job for a staff of workers. I’m not retired yet, but hopefully I won’t ever have to come back to this place once I move out. Time will tell.
     
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  18. blueiron

    blueiron

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    I've never understood this mentality.

    If retired Officer/Deputy/Trooper/Agent Snerdly does something stupid with a firearm, the active CLEO and agency aren't on the hook. They can simply state that Snerdly retired and that he/she has no current affiliation with their agency or current government.
     
  19. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    They put a marksmanship standard in LEOSA for retired guys, they could have put a crazy clause in there too if they wanted, they declined to do so, so agency shouldn't concern themselves with annual/biannual ID card replacements. If anything, that INCREASES their liability, doesn't it? What little potential liability there is, you're certainly not liable if he was fine 10 years ago when he retired, but if you kept giving him new ID card every year or two, you're making some sort of more recent endorsement of his fitness to carry...

    Surely any potential liability diminishes the further back in time you issued creds, right?

    Randy
     
  20. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    Liability comes at you from all directions, especially in this ever-increasingly gun-unfriendly environment. As I have said, I can fully understand an agency doing what it can to limit liability.

    Even if there is no actual civil liability, I can see an agency being able to defend itself in the trial by my media with measures similar to my agency’s.