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Report has public pension short fall at $4.6 trillion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Whenever someone has to default on a contract, there are losers.

    The problem you seem to have with this concept, is that you think the tax payers should be the losers and not the public employees. In the world of provate companies, the party who is owed money is typically the loser.

    When money is gone, someone is going to feel pain. Now it is just a discussion of WHO should feel the pain.
     
  2. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You are missing something. CA is bleeding business away because of what the CA govt is doing. This makes the downward spiral faster.
     

  3. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Examine Vallejo and their bankruptcy. You may learn something if you care to see.
     
  4. elsolo

    elsolo

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    Nice concise summary
     
  5. CAcop

    CAcop

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    No I have noticed. What is interesting is that it isn't so much businesses leaving it is when they expand they expand elsewhere. Then the middle class follows. See Austin for details.
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Exactly wrong. You don't know much about revenue recognition in the post SarbOx world.

    That is how a capital lease works if you buy a car as well.

    We design manufacture and sell medical instrumentation. We don't hold paper. We don't take payments and we don't extend terms beyond 30 days because they all affect revenue recognition. You buy it from us or you buy it from the leasing company and they buy it from us.

    Muni leases are relatively rare and generally only used when the institution does not have the capital available to spend and has a significant need.

    So you asked the question with an agenda, formed an uninformed opinion based on my honest answer and you're still wrong.

    What was your point again? Contract law or finance?
     
  7. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Costs too much to up and leave all at once. What will happen is they will expand in other areas as phase 1. Then as phase two, they will move out when the other area is up and running.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    I never thought you were an unintelligent person until this post, specifically the red text you inserted in the quote. If you think the judicial can force the legislative to appropriate money, you're a moron.
     
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Instead of playing coy and pretending that you actually countered his point effectively, why don't you provide the relevant information here and teach us. You obviously have great knowledge of it and how it applies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  10. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    Get real. A country sheriff is going to force a state legislature to appropriate money for a certain program? That isn't even close to realistic.

    I don't do a bunch of work in CA, but I do know for a fact that the state court system does present a proposed budget to both the house and senate budget committees.

    As far as your 2nd amendment argument, this isn't a court finding a state statue or city ordinance unconstitutional, which is what they are there for, this is a court forcing a legislature to take a legislative action. That would be the definition of a separation of powers violation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    CACop, still waiting to hear if you're an expert on contract law.
     
  12. CAcop

    CAcop

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    With the bigger names I think they will keep HQ here but most of th work will be done elsewhere. Smaller companies I can see pulling the plug.

    My town has some HQs but the bulk of the business is elsewhere.
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    What is this opinion based on?
     
  14. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Vallejo went bankrupt. Pay and benes went to just below median for the area. There was no great victory for either side. You keep waiting to spank public employees but it isn't going to happen. The work still has to get done. You and your fellow taxpayers demand it.

    I think what is happening with some smaller government folks is that they realize they are losing hearts and minds so they are trying to drive public employees out of the workforce. All it does is trim any fat and increase turnover. See SJPD for details. They are losing centuries of experience monthly.
     
  15. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Nope just read the relavant case law on public employee pensions. You clearly haven't.
     
  16. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    They will go or stay where they make the most money. Raise taxes in CA to where it is cheaper to go elsewhere and they are gone. Companies are much more loyal to money than anything else.

    There is a reason Switzerland has the headquarters of so many companies in it (hint, 13% corporate tax and that is typically after the 10 year tax holiday)
     
  17. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    Sorry, I can't stop thinking about this. So an a law enforcement officer, you think that a judge could hold a state legislator in contempt for not taking a certain legislative action?

    I can't even begin to explain how stunned I am by the lack of understanding of basic constitutional principles.
     
  18. CAcop

    CAcop

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    When you read the articles on companies "leaving" CA watch the wording. The latest one posted here talked about CA companies doing "new hiring out of state." It also talked about layoffs unless people were to relocate.

    I also know more than a few people in the tech industry and I was a part of it a while back. It is hard to stay out of the loop when it comes to tech in the Bay Area.

    I think a lot of the "CA is dying" stories come from people who want this liberal hell to fail. I think they don't grasp the complexities of this state. I certainly think they don't grasp the complexities of the Bay Area.

    While it might be easy to paint everyone in CA with a broad brush it just isn't going to stick.
     
  19. CAcop

    CAcop

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    To be honest your question was rather silly. There is no way any politician is going to cut off funding to the courts because of one ruling. They are not as impulsive as you. If they have the votes the politicians need to rewrite the law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    What's the lesson there? You implied there was a lesson for DanaT if he read up on it.

    I get it. You're a big government guy.

    Actually what is happening is that we're sick and tired of being treated like tax cattle. We're tired of paying for unnecessary government employees and overpaying for the necessary ones. We're tired of seeing politicians spend our money irresponsibly with the contracts they negotiate with employee unions. We're tired of being effectively taxed by politicians who were in office before we were born.

    Most of, as the article in the OP shows, there is a major crisis of public employee pensions looming and we know that the government is going to put a gun to our heads and take our wallet to bail them out.