close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Report has public pension short fall at $4.6 trillion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    You're wrong about all of the above.

    SS and Medicare are great examples though. Just like public pensions.
     
  2. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    Already looking. Just depends on what I want to do and where I want to do it. The way I look at it there are these choices:

    1. Start firearms instruction school. I have the training and experience to do it.

    2. Get into gunsmithing. This one I have less training and experience in terms of smithing.

    3. Private investigation. Kroll and Associates would be my first choice. Apple next up. Then any numerous law firms or PI firms.

    4. Just about anything else. To be honest it would be better than listening to people like you whine about the cost of public safety yet sleep feeling all smug in bed.
     

  3. jpa

    jpa CLM

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Messages:
    8,030
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    Las Vegas NV
    Again, you're intentionally missing my point. If you didn't know from year to year what your salary was going to be, would you continue to do that job? I understand you're in sales and I don't know if part of your compensation is commission based, but if so you started your job with that understanding, correct? I'm also not talking about raising or lowering 401k matching contributions, but a fundamental change in the structure of the pension from what you originally started with.

    I also never said public employees are "only in it for the pension gravy." I'm saying that government pay sucks, the only upside is the benefits. Eliminate the benefits and those who are qualified will leave for better paying jobs, probably in the private sector.
     
  4. elsolo

    elsolo

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    6,575
    Likes Received:
    1,894
    Location:
    socal
    The number of applicants per job opening suggests that the compensation is above average for the requirements for most government jobs.
     
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    Good luck. It's good to have options. Let us know what you decide. The more people we have out producing the better

    As for whining about the cost: would public employees prefer the people paying them just shut up and pay whatever the unions and politicians decide on their behalf? Is that really the kind of country you want?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    I work on salary and commission. My commission is 2/3 of my comp. Every year the market changes and the company objectives change and my comp plan changes. One year I had $100k taken out of my comp plan RETROACTIVELY. It stings. I stayed there for 3 more years. I hated it but I understood the reason and I had significant stock and options so I was an owner.

    Likewise, pre SarbOx we had an ESPP plan. I put a full 15% of my comp into it. 6 month offering period. We got the lowest price on opening or closing minus 10%. Price could go down but never go up. I was buying shares at $15.51 for 5 or so years. When we got bought the price was $170/share.

    About midway thru the government mandated changes that affected how those shares hit the company's books. The plan got too expensive so the company changed it, at our expense. The EMT got to keep their plan. I won't say how much it cost me except to say it was a whole lot more than fun money. It sucks but it had to happen. The government forced it.

    Likewise I've had changes in the matching % in my 401k plans.

    See, like we talked about earlier, the BOD of a company has a fiduciary duty to look after the shareholders money. The government doesn't. In private industry resources get managed most effectively. In government resources get consumed and mismanaged.

    To people leaving if the pensions are diluted:

    Yes. With those statements you just made the 3rd time, you're saying public employees are in it for the pension gravy.

    As elsolo said, the data proves public employee comp is too high.

    Really we WANT public employees coming to work everyday busting their butts in hope of breaking out into the productive sector. We need more there. So if diluting the pensions causes that, it might be a good thing. We want our best people out pulling the wagon, not riding in it.

    Clearly what we have now is unaffordable. I think we should at least try. If we make a mistake changes can always be made again b
     
  7. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,786
    Likes Received:
    5,429
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    "Tax" monies aren't flowing into mine. "Employer contributions", yes, but no specifically raised taxes for that purpose.

    Employees pay significant contributions into the system. I know I did. The more I made, the more I paid into it.

    The other benefits aren't "free" to me, either, costing me either accumulated service hours (worth money), and/or my own money.

    I'm not surprised to see how counties and municipalities have been curtailing certain benefits, other than the actual pensions, either. I remember when I knew employees of other agencies who had retirement programs that included free medical for themselves and their spouses, as retirees, for life. That's been going away all over.

    Also, creating safety retirement tiers that are 3%@55 instead of 3%@50 are going to be saving a lot of money. I think we'll continue to see more of them. I've spoken to board members who said the calculations showed that delaying raising the retirement age just 5 years generated (prevented paying out) millions of dollars in the fund.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    If you are a public employee those "employer contributions" are tax money. Your entire compensation package is tax money. Don't play word games.

    I think CACOP said earlier that his employer paid 40% of his contribution. My employer pays a small fraction of that.

    When I retire my private plan guarantees NOTHING unless I purchase certain instruments.

    And who started this crap where it became acceptable for public employees to retire at 50 or 55? That's flat out luxurious. In the the productive sector that's a dream reserved for either the very frugal or the wealthy.
     
  9. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    Only 5% of the people who apply to us can meet minimum standards. We have been short 5% for the last three years. By your measure we should be paying more.
     
  10. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    Try again.

    Of the money me and my employer are paying I am paying 60%. It is 20.54% of my base pay. Before my portion was 9%. Of course before the city was paying 0-5%.

    The reason why it is confusing is because every single employee/employer contract in CalPERS is different. Before the crash my uncle who is an IT manager for CalPERS said they offer "800 products" to cities and counties. Essentially they have 800 packages they can sell. Just take judges for example. There are three retirement plans for them depending on start dates. Then there are various deals over who pays what.

    This is why CalPERS is going nowhere. They offer way more choices than any pension plan out there. If you dont like what they have to offer they just might make a new plan just for you.
     
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    If you're paying 60% who's paying the other 40%??

    Change employer to taxpayer. It makes things clearer.
     
  12. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    The people we negotiate with are hired by politicians. The politicians are brought into office by voters. I don't vote for to the politcians I negotiate with. Only 12% of our officers live in the city. I honestly don't even know why we bother endorsing people. We certainly don't give them money so they don't do us any favors. They also know we can't vote for them. It is a joke.

    If the voters were really upset with our pay and benes they could so what San Jose voters just did. Of course they caused a exodus of officers never before seen. SJPD went from 1345 officer to a current 920. They just lost 30 in the last 60 days. Just before the crash the then cheif said they needed over 1800 officers.

    This is for a city of 1 million people. This is for a city that built a hockey arena. A city that has an international airport. A city that proclaims itself to be "The Capital of Silicon Valley." It also claims to be "The Safest Big City in America" and they could back it up.

    They just had the most homicides in 20 years this last year.

    You get what you pay for.
     
  13. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    Like I said earlier. We have been short 5% for three years. They should pay more. Pay less and you will get less.
     
  14. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    Not necessarily.

    1. Your target number may not be appropriate.

    2. Running a little lean is good.

    At my company, we run super lean. I'd say 1 person doing the job of 3. Certainly less than 95%. The shareholders decide how much revenue they want and how much overhead they'll accept. We work with that and constantly look for more heads to cut.

    That's because our BOD has a fiduciary duty, jpa
     
  15. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    See above. Simply being "short" means nothing. 95% filled is pretty damn good.
     
  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    Clearly the taxpayers prefer to spend their money elsewhere. Who are you to disagree with the people writing the checks?
     
  17. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    We had 105,000 calls for service last year. 15 years ago when I started we had 45,000 calls for service.

    Same number of officers.

    Now tell me what that does for response times and length of time for follow investigations?
     
  18. devildog2067

    devildog2067

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    16,395
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    Location:
    Chicago
    When a private company goes out of business (for whatever reason) guess what happens to the people who depend on it for a pension? They get screwed.

    Generally, people who get paid a public pension just scream until the taxpayer ends up footing the bill.

    1) This is fiscally unsustainable. The reason it is this way is that politicians 40 years ago figured out that if they promised benefits instead of wages, they would be out of office before anyone would have to pay for it.

    2) Government pay doesn't "suck" all that badly. Some people are underpaid, a whole lot are overpaid compared to what they could receive in the employment market.
     
  19. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    60,199
    Likes Received:
    13,021
    Work faster
     
  20. CAcop

    CAcop

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    21,915
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    California
    Can't the line at the jail slows me down. Hire more correctional officers.