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Report has public pension short fall at $4.6 trillion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    No, it hasn't. You haven't gotten a "return" yet.

    You held a small amount of a foreign currency (in paper notes, I assume) and the exchange rate changed. But if you went back to China to spend it, the same amount of paper currency would buy roughly the same amount of stuff.

    You haven't earned a "return" until you convert your RMB holdings back into USD. If for whatever reason you can't convert your RMB to USD, you've earned a -100% return. You can't count something as earning you a return unless you can convert it into something you can spend, and you can't spend RMB here in the US.

    I used to get paid in USD, CHF and Euros all at the same time. The exchange rates between the three fluctated, but I didn't care. You know why? Because I used my Euro paycheck to buy Euro-denominated stuff, my Swiss Francs paycheck to buy CHF-denominated stuff, and my USD paycheck to buy USD-denominated stuff. When the Euro increases 10% against the USD... my US mortgage payment doesn't change. I still get paid the same number of US dollars, and I write a check to the mortgage company for the same number of US dollars. If I converted my Euro paycheck into USD to get "more" dollars... then how would I pay my bills that are in Euros, like my French car insurance payment?

    Look, if you want to be a currency investor go for it. There's no reason why you'd need to be paid in RMB in order to do so. If you think that Euros or RMB are going to strengthen, go buy some--you don't need your employer to convert your paycheck for you.
     
  2. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Even if the IP was in the public domain, how do you expect poor people to be able to afford to build medical devices?
     

  3. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    As to your previous post, you're right. I have no reason to visit China, so the cash RMBs will at some point be converted to USDs. As for getting paid in Euros or RMBs, it would have to be on a pre-set rate. Yes, I can get my paycheck, run to the bank, and ask them to buy RMBs or Euros at whatever the rate of that day.

    If the life saving medical devise is in the public domain, any and all medical devise companies can manufacturer it, and put it out on the market (FDA approval, of course, etc...). Kind of like, but better than, a prescription for a... generic medication.

    Or did I miss something about costs for a medical device that's patented, vs. same device in the public domain?
     
  4. jpa

    jpa CLM

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    The official unemployment numbers for Las Vegas are hovering around 10%. The "real" unemployment of people who are unemployed or underemployed is more around 20-25%. I don't know about you, but when I want to make more money or don't like my job (or don't have one), I apply for everything and anything.

    I also know a few people who work in HR at the casinos. They're getting about 50-100 applications per opening minimum. Why would government employment be any different?
     
  5. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Why don you come work for free for me?

    I have a contract that could change at any time based upon market conditions. You think you should be immune to the economy because your work is paid for by taking societies money.

    PS. If you can not afford a device you think you need, that is not my problem. I guess you dont need it bad enough if you cant pay for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    It shouldn't. That's why the government should respect the market and use the opportunity to cut wages and benefits to save the taxpayers some money.

    I have no interest in how a casino manages its labor costs.
     
  7. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You missed a more than a lot. It also shows why you have so little regard for other peoples money. You have no clue what it takes to generate wealth.

    But, I will make the offer to you. If you have $3M to invest, there is a good opportunity to make money, or if you are such a humanitarian you can donate all your profits.
     
  8. jpa

    jpa CLM

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    As CACop said, under the law the only way out of paying pensions is bankruptcy. That said....

    When a business goes bankrupt, who gets paid first, employees or the owners?

    If a business is strapped for cash, who is expected to pay the bills, the employees or the owners?

    If a business submits a reorganization plan, do they not have to show an ability to repay debts and/or pay for continuing operations and future liabilities?

    When a business goes bankrupt, what's the order of repayment? Where do employees fall in that order?

    Who "owns" the government? Who pays government's bills? If taxpayers are expected to pay every other bill, why would employee pensions be any different?
     
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    CACOP was wrong and it was demonstrated to him 12 different ways.

    The court cannot force the legislative to appropriate money.
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    And when a business goes bankrupt the shareholders are protected. That is the whole point of incorporation.

    If you buy shares of xyz corp and it fails, you don't pay a dime.
     
  11. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    What you people refuse to see, the laws can be easily changed. A few days ago, inheritance tax was 35% today it is 40%.

    Well, by definition it is bankrupt. Creditor order of pay is determined in the bankruptcy hearings. Some creditors have higher standing than others. That said, they still only get what assets are left, even the employees. If there is nothing, no-one gets anythings.


    It depends. Are you talking a corporation or sole proprietorship?

    No, they have to show a good faith effort to be able to repay if they simply want to re-org. But there are different types of bankruptcy and you are mixing these.

    It depends how creditors are secured and what the priority of security is.

    You are trying to get me to say employees first which is sometimes the case and sometime not. However, if there is no money left, no-one gets anything.

    I hear all the time how these people dont work for me. So obviously I dont it their job and by your logic, since they remind us all the time they dont work for me, I shouldnt have to pay them a dime, nickel or penny.
     
  12. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Great. I guess that's why First Responder tasks are assigned to pubic service. Because if police/fire/EMS went privatized, their motto would be... "you don't need it bad enough if you can't pay for it. Will that be Cash, Credit or Debit?"
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Which first responders?
     
  14. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    This is the reason I donate heavily to FOP and IAFF golf tournaments and charity events, I am willing to pay extra for a little extra care.
     
  15. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Yeah, that's the problem. I work for a business where generating personal wealth creatively is a dirty word. Go figure, right!

    Yes, my focus in life was never to generate wealth for myself. My family (both my sister and brother are lawyers) tells me I would have earned multi-millions by now if I went patent law. But that was 1995, and since then, I've never had any regrets doing what I do now.

    Unfortunately, I don't have $3 Million. I'm a poor working stiff. But thanks for your offer.
     
  16. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    "Pubic" service? EMTs in your neighborhood must do something different than they do around here.

    In any case--yes, you're right. The few things that we, as a nation, choose to pay for as public infrastructure rather than through the free market are things that we, collectively, "feel" that people should have access to even if they can't afford to pay for them.

    That doesn't mean they're free. Police and fire services certainly are not free. What it means is, those who can pay pay their share AND subsidize the shares of those who cannot pay.

    Whether you think it's right or wrong, at least be honest about it. If someone can't afford to pay for something, and wants it anyway, that means that someone else must pay for them.
     
  17. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Whoever gets there first after you dial 9-1-1. Could be your neighbors for all I know. :dunno:
     
  18. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    "confiscating" money is not generating wealth. You dont really get what generating wealth means.
     
  19. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Honesty about where money comes from for the publci sector employees seems to be something they have a hard time "honestly" acknowledging.
     
  20. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Absolutely that "somebody" has to pay for it.

    In one of my previous post, I mention local/county/state medical center that is also a level I trauma center. You may never need to be a patient at a level I trauma center, but if you (or your family ever did), how much are you willing to pay for that service?

    So now, lets think "generating money." Governments aren't in it to make a profit, like private industries are. But if the only local Level I trauma center is owned/operated by the local/county/state, shouldn't that place be allowed to charge the going rate for what a private (ie 'for profit') facility would charge?

    I mean, if a private business figured they can provide Level I care and make a profit, they'd jump in, right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013