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Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by rmeron, Aug 19, 2010.
Any opinions on the 9mm 124gr Golden Sabre from a Glock 26?
Many have reported jacket seperation with the non-bonded Golden Saber, I recall seeing some pictures here on GT. I carry the Remington GS, 124gr, +p, BONDED in my G26. I prefer Speer Gold Dot to be honest, but it wasn't available for awhile. To answer your question, I'm good with the GS as long as it's bonded.
*When I qualify with the G26 next time, I'll in all likelyhood I'll shoot the GS and replace it with Speer GD.
The Remington 124gr +P GS (non-bonded) load passed the CA state testing specifications the last time around when Remington was awarded the state bid for duty ammunition, as did the non-bonded 180gr .40 S&W load. Since the CHP uses that contract for their .40 S&W ammunition, I've been told they've had some influence in the testing conditions and specifications over the years.
While I can't remember seeing the 9mm GS loads tested in any recent hosted gel events, I can remember seeing the 165gr, 180gr & 180gr bonded GS loads testing in the usual gel/barrier testing scenarios. The only one which shed its jacket that time around was the 165gr load. The 180gr standard load even held together in the windshield glass shots.
I think the last time Gary Roberts updated his own recommendations for duty ammunition based upon his independent testing, he only had the Rem 147gr GS on his list (but then the only HST load on his list was the 147gr load, too, with the other Federal loads being Tactical 124gr LE9T1 & 135gr +P LE9T5 loads). The Speer 124gr +P made his list.
I've used the 124gr +P GS non-bonded load for the last few years (since it was issued duty ammo) and have found it to feed & function just fine in my various 9's with good accuracy, including my G26. I'm unaware of any shootings in which it was used, though.
I'll continue to use my existing supply of both Rem 124gr +P GS and Win T-series 127gr +P+ until something else arrives in inventory where I help out as a firearms instructor & armorer. That will probably be the Win RA9124TP, 9MM, 124Gr, JHP +P since that's on the newest state contract.
I've also used the Speer 124gr +P and 147gr GD's upon occasion, but you don't really see them in much LE use in my geographical area for whatever reason (probably just marketing reasons).
I've been at forensic autopsies where the 9mm Golden Saber non-bonded 124-grain standard and +P jhp's were recovered from bodies. All total in all autopsies, there were 13 bullets recovered. None had core and jacket separation.
One expanded bullet, a +P, seemed to be close to popping its jacket, but that was it. It had penetrated more than a foot through the torso, so the fact that the core and jacket seemed loosely connected at that point was immaterial to the subject on the slab. In testing non-bonded 147-grain 9mm GS bullets through a car windshield, one third of them shed their jackets after passing through the glass.
Interesting info Snowman92D. Thanks.
Personally, I don't worry about what happens during windshield glass penetration nearly as much as I do in other conditions, but that's just me.
I like the bullet @ +P vel in the G26. In my own backyard testing, never had one separate completely in wetpack or water.
Same for me, too.
I wish now that I'd calipered all of the recovered bullets to see if the +P Golden Saber 124's expanded better than the standard pressure version. I had measured a few and found them all to be in the .60 -.62-inch diameter range. They were all from shootings where gang-bangers had shot each other, or citizen defensive shooters had shot attacking criminals, and were from a variety of 9mm pistols.
I thought they worked really well in people, if not in gel-testing.
Good report Snowman.......
I have carried that round in my G26 before. I wouldn't mind doing so again, but it would not be at the top of my list. My only common carry guns are a G26 and a G19. I prefer Winchester Ranger or Speer/CCI Gold Dot, especially RA9T (ranger 147gr Talon) or 124+P Gold Dots.
I saw some separation in 147g, non-bonded, that I fired into water jugs. Not saying this is scientific, applicable, etc. Just stating a fact. Several rounds separated completely.
These were the very first defensive rounds I purchased and tried. They ran fine in the guns (26 and 19) and expanded OK. Other rounds performed better for me, so I moved on.
Proof from the streets and NOT from the ramblings of the Jello Monkeys!
Good to hear from ya Snowman.
I've found that the 124-grain Golden Saber +P has the best shooting characteristics of all the ammo I've tried in my Steyr M9-A1. The velocity Remington gives is 1180 fps through a 4" barrel.
I've been wondering if the 1125 fps standard pressure Golden Saber would make an excellent round for home defense at close range. I haven't shot enough standard pressure to make a comparison between the two rounds.
The unbonded Golden Saber does have some issues with jacket seperation. However, generally this seperation happens within the last couple inches of bullet penetration so the typical reason to avoid jacket seperation (reduced weight equalling reduced penetration) is really a moot point in the case of the Golden Saber.
They have brass jackets unlike most other HP's that are copper. A bit tougher which can reduce expansion a bit. I use the bonded 124 +P, 180 and 230 in 9mm, 40 and 45. It's a good bullet that expands reliably but not as large as some other bullets out there. I also use the non-bonded 102 in 380. It's the heaviest bullet I could find in the caliber. If it does'nt expand I'm fine with it as long as it penetrates sufficiently. The primers are sealed, the cases are super shiny and slick, the bullets are'nt tarnished. QC seems to be excellent as does the value in my experience.
You mean in people? Be interesting to know.
I made Jello Monkeys with vodka for a party a few years ago, the ladies love em'.
The only problem with the GS were the accuracy deviations in the FBI protocol tests for the HRT .45 ACP years ago. Only one gunsmith could make the 1911 to their rigorous standards: Matt Gish, who is now an FBI armourer & a helluva nice fella. He worked over a Colt Pocket Nine for me and like a damned fool I sold it.
Back on track, the GS is a winner IMO.
I mean in general. The design of the bullet is such that it lends itself to jacket seperation regardless of what it is shot at.
Are you basing this on what you`ve read somewhere or actually seen? It`s pretty hard to argue with an autopsy.
FWIW, jacket separation affecting wound effectiveness in humans is BS. If the jacket separates it usually stays in the wound track and does nothing to impede bullet penetration. If anything the jacket may ``wander`` off a bit.
If a person is truly concerned about jacket shedding then buy & use Corbon DPX as it is THE only handgun round that the projectile will effectively penetrate two layers of 16 ga. steel (think car door) and still mushroom in a body. HST, GS, GD, etc., all fail this test.
In the context of the GS I agree.