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Remington Golden Saber .40 S&W 180 gr JHP Test

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by JohnnyReb, Mar 16, 2010.

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  1. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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  2. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Homunculus

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    Cool video, and thanks for supplying the ammo! I've tried the 180gr Golden Sabre three times, one even handloaded to higher velocities and all three of them experienced jacket core separation. That being said, it's not to say that in flesh it wouldn't hold up just fine.
     

  3. BurkGlocker

    BurkGlocker Texas Redneck

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    I've always enjoyed watching his videos on YouTube, and he does a great job letting the viewer know exactly what and how he is doing it. Great vid, thanks for supplying the ammo as well...

    BG
     
  4. Ak.Hiker

    Ak.Hiker

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    I have found that the Remington Golden Saber is a pretty tough design. I have tested out the 125 grain 357 Magnum (a good mid range load), the 165 grain 40 S&W, the 180 grain 40 S&W, and the 230 grain 45 acp. They all held up and kept their jackets when testing thru spruce wood, stumps, and moose bones.
     
  5. glocknbruce

    glocknbruce

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    I use the Golden Saber Bonded in my 9mm.... a really good load
     
  6. TWS G26

    TWS G26

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    JohnnyReb, thanks for posting this on GT, and again for the generous donation and your patience during this process. I think it took two months to get this done, with the weather and schedules. There was enough ammo for additional tests, but I feel the story (in this media) was going to be the same. Folks have already commented they were getting similar results in just water, and also ballistic gel.

    I know that some will dismiss this media for testing, and that it was the primary factor in the results, but why did the non-bonded 180 gr HST perform with flying colors? So far, that has been the most impressive non-bonded load that I've tested in .40, with the 9mm 147 gr HST fulfilling the same train of thought.

    And, I am very seriously considering moving to ballistic gel, either with a test I have pending (Winchester 9mm 147 gr SXT RA9T) or the next in line. I need to do some more research on the gel-making process, proper storage, testing environment, etc.; and I've already been shopping for a suitable size mold/container. It may not be 100% spec to FBI standards, but as damn close as I can make it. I will continue to use denim.
     
  7. BurkGlocker

    BurkGlocker Texas Redneck

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    TWS G26, I use a plastic bread container from WalMart as my mold. Its 14x5x5 and works pretty well for me. Usually I only make the gel 12" long and use water jugs as a backer to catch anything that passes through. A gallon and half of water and 18-19 oz of Knox gelatin and I have a pretty close water/gelatin ratio according to weight.

    Here's a picture of my setup... I wrap it in plastic wrap to keep the gelatin from getting all over the place. Plus, you can melt down, remold and reuse the gel for other tests and usually only takes 24 hours to get it to solidify.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. jwizzl497

    jwizzl497

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    TWS/TNT,

    I really look fwd to your tests. I love your methodology - simple concise and no fluff or filler - just simple consistent process with clear results. Also, really like how people are manning up and sponsoring these - good teamwork. A Big thanks to TNT/TWS and anyone one who sponsored one of these tests.

    One suggestions - It might be helpful if you had simple list of ammo that's already been tested or would like to test so that people know what to send you to sponsor these.
     
  9. jwizzl497

    jwizzl497

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    TWS,

    Question for you, you kind of touched on it in your above post but based on your testing thus far, what are you picks for Defensive carry in 9mm and 40sw??
     
  10. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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    No problem. You did a really good job on the test, and the ammo money was well spent. Will donate additional ammo as needed, and I would encourage anyone else who is willing, to do the same. These tests benefit us all.
     
  11. jwizzl497

    jwizzl497

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  12. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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    Its worth noting, the 180gr Golden Saber was loaded in my previous night stand gun (Beretta 96G-SD) because of the controlability, and accuracy I obtained with this loading. I knew the round was known for core/jacket separation, but I was not overly concerned at the time. Curious as to how the round would hold up, and having no means to test the ballistics, I asked TWS G26 if he would test the round if I sent him some. He agreed, and I purchased a box from ammunitiontogo.com, and had it shipped directly to him.

    After reviewing this test, and the round's less then stellar performance, I has since changed to my standby load (Federal Hi-Shok 155gr) which I have a few boxes of. This load was used by the border patrol and customs for years with good results. I have also switched my nightstand gun to a G-35 for unrelated reasons.

    Once I can obtain a supply of Ranger 165gr SXT, I plan on switching to that load, because that's my agencies new load (after switching from the 165 gr Hydra-shock).
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  13. hurley842002

    hurley842002

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    As always Great test, thank you very much! To add my experience with this particular bullet (in the 230gr .45acp flavor), I bought a couple hundred of these bullets for reloading purposes, loaded up 10 rounds and performed a nearly identical test to yours. I also experienced Jacket separation twice, just as you did. Despite the performance during my test, I still keep Factory loaded 230gr Golden Sabers in my 1911, because they are accurate and reliable.
     
  14. DRT

    DRT

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    looks like another load to avoid. make mine HST.
     
  15. hurley842002

    hurley842002

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    That would be nice if the HST was readily available to the public.
     
  16. DRT

    DRT

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    Yeah it takes some effort to find it, but anyone with at least 2 spare brain cells to rub together can eventually find it. Just buy in case quantities once you find it.
     
  17. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Another nice video...

    I've never been a huge fan of the Golden Saber. For the first time in a LONG, LONG time, I'm actually considering switching to the PDX1 in 180gr and 147gr. I've got some 230gr that were gifted to me, and picked up the others 2 weeks ago, just haven't had time to shoot them. I figure w/ their price and availability.. its worth a try.

    IGF
     
  18. crenca

    crenca

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    I would encourage you to do so. Everyone, with just a little bit of knowledge, rightly comes to the conclusion that wet news paper is NOT a "ballistic test" that anyone should pay attention to. Animal flesh is NOT wet newspaper. The bullets are designed to work in a certain way in flesh, NOT wet newspaper.

    With the advances of both bullet design and testing methodology there is no reason to use wet newspaper (or sand, or mud, or wood, etc.) unless you are using them as a possible cover you will have to shoot through in a likely critical incident. Since wet newspaper is not a likely cover, well...

    I understand that many say they understand all this and are simply trying to test "expansion", but what is "expansion" outside of it's intended use/target (i.e. human and/or animal flesh)?

    All this and more is covered under the Terminal Ballistic section over at m4carbine.net. Sure, there is still plenty to learn - but wet newspaper has shown us all that it can (which is not much)...
     
  19. TWS G26

    TWS G26

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    I cannot disagree with anything you stated. Regardless of the media used, I greatly underestimated the public's desire for any type of ballistic testing on video. There isn't much on YouTube, including for ballistic gel. This method was convenient, and a step further than simply testing wetpack or water jugs. I never cited that it was a replacement for or equivalent to gel testing, just a representation of bullet performance. I had no idea it would reach the point where people I've never met, including LEO's, would submit ammo. I suspect that ballistic gel tests will be very well received, and I will be overrun with ammo donations. If I can can crank out 2 or 3 monthly, it will be progress.
     
  20. hurley842002

    hurley842002

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    I've watched pretty much all of TWS G26's, and I don't ever recall him comparing his newspaper test media to any type of flesh. In fact he types out a nice little disclaimer at the begining of his vids, explaining exactly what he's doing, and i've never heard him say he was trying to duplicate flesh. He does this as a favor to many many curious viewers, that may not have the time or resources to do this type of testing on their own. I enjoy performing these types of tests as well, however I don't do it nearly as frequent nor do I have the video capabilities. At the end of the day, its just something fun to do.