close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Reloading the 9mm

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Zombie556, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. es 350

    es 350

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    359
    I load 125gr (.357) XTP's over 6 gr of PP, VERY accurate load in 9mm.

    20160821_184324_zpslg0pszj2.jpg

    This 3 shots from gen 3 G26 @ 25 yds with above load.
    Forget measurement but was under 1".

    20170309_181058.jpg
    Here is 3 shots @25 yds from this contraption!
    20170309_194450.jpg
    Gen.4 g22 with a LWD 17l barrel (sleeved to fit 22 slide)that has been lapped , squared/ recrowned and fitted with a brake for ss30378.
     
  2. ss30378

    ss30378

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    Alabama
    So I have no excuse to blame the Glock for my bad groups now is what you're telling me???
     

  3. es 350

    es 350

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    359
    Well as long as you use PP/125 XTP that's the secret , EVERYONE KNOWS Glocks aren't accurate!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  4. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    9,309
    Location:
    Sunny Fla
    It's generally not the gun. :supergrin:

    wp
     
  5. sciolist

    sciolist

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    3,377
    Location:
    PNW
    The gun part of it is the gun, the ammo part's the ammo, and the shooter part is the shooter. And you can demonstrate all of this by taking each one of the 3 in and out of the equation.
     
    es 350 likes this.
  6. fredj338

    fredj338

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    24,094
    Likes Received:
    2,612
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Yeah but its always shooter first. Best gun & ammo in the world isnt making a novice into a master.;)
     
    es 350 likes this.
  7. sciolist

    sciolist

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    3,377
    Location:
    PNW
    That's certainly true. And by that same logic, a crappy gun and ammo won't make a master into a novice.

    It's interesting to contemplate the real effects of changes to the 3. I don't do much in the way of really "accurate" shooting. I can usually get to about 1.5 inches at 20 yards offhand with my production gun on a nice day. That's good enough for me. I've never put any of my guns in a vise, so not really sure how accurate they are. I have shot other production guns known to have better mechanical accuracy, though - and I can't really see much difference.

    My ability to place hits is mostly perception. There doesn't seem to be any big magic of steadiness. It's just about seeing the sights lift as clearly as possible. And at speed, it's about knowing what you need to see and having the discipline to work to that process. (IOW, the same thing). :)

    I always get a kick out of it when I have a rock solid call on a bad hit, and it prints good. Statistically, there has to be a certain amount of that. It's pretty fascinating to do a few dry groups with my reset gun, and then turn right around and shoot live groups inside the dry wobble.

    Maybe there's a little bit of free lunch after all. I always try to remember the dry gun never prints larger than a zero inch group - so all the screw-ups are on me. Funny to see the live gun and ammo out-shoot the wobble, though.
     
    fredj338 likes this.
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    24,094
    Likes Received:
    2,612
    Location:
    so.cal.
    I know my best gun/ammo will shoot into 3" @ 50yds off a bench. I can keep most my shots in the 0 down offhand at some speed. I am sure a good Bullseye shooter could best that. Always the shooter first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  9. sciolist

    sciolist

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    3,377
    Location:
    PNW
    Man, I can't shoot a pistol off a bench to save my life. Rifle somewhat, but pistol is just not intuitive to me that way.

    Shooting moderately fast splits for groups is a great visual exercise. It can also show you things about neutrality in your grip.
     
  10. es 350

    es 350

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    359
    For a novice it is a catch 22, as you must have an accurate gun/ammo combo in order to learn proper technique.
    Shooter is important but can never shoot better than what gun/ammo is capable of producing.
    The catch is if the shooter isn't where he should be with trigger control/sights they will not shoot good with a load capable of 1 hole @50 yds and normally end up shooting a load/gun combo that doesn't allow them to improve accuracy.

    Anyone starting out with an inaccurate gun with inaccurate ammo will NEVER learn to shoot to their potential.
    Most get discouraged and give up trying to improve.

    When testing for handgun accuracy I shoot from a kneeling position with elbow on knee. This position can almost always be used in field (hunting) for long shots.
     
  11. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Location:
    Southern California
    First of all, you can't measure .0005" without a micrometer. That's 5/10,000. And because a 9mm has a small taper, you would have to measure in the exact place as the after resized case. Since pressure cannot be measured directly, without a test barrel fixture, the best way is to visually inspect the fired case. If you stay within the powder makers published data for charge weight and OAL, you will be fine.

    Normal Glock strike
    [​IMG]

    Over pressure case on the right, not Glock. almost pierced primer, completely flattened and flowed primer, almost unreadable head stamp, case swelling, claw mark from extractor, most likely out of an H&K

    [​IMG]
     
    ithaca_deerslayer and Taterhead like this.
  12. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Location:
    Southern California
    es 350, you got a sub 1" group at 25 yards offhand with factory sights and trigger from a G26? And a sub .5" group with a hybrid? That's even more amazing... So how did you deal with the barrel tab to breech cut gap when you put a G17 barrel into a G22? That's about .022" wider in a G22, also what did you make the sleeve out of? That's only an .011" thick wall.
     
  13. usnret

    usnret

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    114
    It also looks like that comp is on upside down.
     
  14. es 350

    es 350

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    359
    Yes, Gen 3 26 is as it came from Glock.
    Only thing I have done to it is polish trigger parts. Don't think trigger was polished when I shot those groups.

    The sleeve is machined out of a brass/bronze alloy (ruined the first one parting off) that came from a factory my dad worked at.

    I machined the sleeve for a tight fit in 22 slide to offset the difference in barrel block /breach face from 9mm to 40 cal slide.
    I do not have a slide to test full size 9 barrels in so came up with the sleeve idea for testing only.
    The tight fit (.012 wall) of the sleeve makes barrel pad fit snug on locking block with NO vertical movement of barrel. This holds barrel in position taking the difference of breach size out of equation.
    20170310_102740.jpg

    Groups were not "off hand" , wish I could shoot that good!
    Shot from kneeling for right hand shooter, right knee on ground ,left foot on ground ,knee up with left elbow on left knee to support hands/gun.
    Very stable field position that is very versatile for long shots when time is available to take said position.

    I told ss30378 lastnight I would have to make some video as no one would believe!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  15. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Location:
    Southern California
    Better get busy on the video, I've ransomed rested Glocks with hand fitted barrels, a 2.2 lb Dale Rhea trigger, custom hand loads and finish reamed chambers to those loads, and got down to sub 1" groups at 25 yards for 10 shots.
     
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    24,094
    Likes Received:
    2,612
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Yes to a degree. A good gun/trigger & accurate ammo makes it easier to shoot well but isn't turning a novice into a master. Bob Vogel could probably beat all comers with a Hipoint & Tula ammo, well maybe not.
     
  17. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Location:
    Southern California
    It wasn't Vogel, it was Ben Stoeger and Frank Proctor

     
    sigman69 likes this.
  18. usnret

    usnret

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    114
    T
    That's like putting lipstick on a pig!
     
    sigman69 likes this.
  19. Zombie556

    Zombie556

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I Check them every time I load ammo ;-)
     
  20. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,535
    Likes Received:
    3,522
    Location:
    Idaho
    Good, then now you know what pressure signs don't look like. ;)
     
    Zombie556 likes this.