Reduce barrel flip

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by JoeInKS, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    For those who have suffered as I do with controlling muzzle flip.....

    My dad, thankfully, for my birthday last week gave me a Glock 21C. Yes, nice gift. Thanks Dad!! Back on point....... he knows that I shoot pretty much 9mm and 22LR exclusively in my pistols since I have tried time and again to tame the flip that I experience when I shoot a .40, .45, 10mm, etc. Well its time for me to man up and get to tame the .45 cal beast. Recoil doesn't bother me at all but the flip issue is annoying.

    Can anyone recommend any changes to the gun, grip, body position, etc. that they have found that works for them? Among other things that Have been mentioned to me by a couple of buddies that swear by the .45 cal are:

    - Increase the weight in the front end by adding a heavier guide rod, longer barrel, etc.
    - Use a compensator (since my 21C has one built in, do you think that this should be enough or add something else)
    - Continue to change grip until one doesn't seem to eat into my hand. IF there's some picture of a good grip / stance, please recommend). One friend has a couple of fingers in front of the trigger section against the serrations that seems like something to try.

    Thanks guys... Actually looking forward to conquering this beast once and for all.
     
  2. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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  3. mboylan

    mboylan

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    Grip and Stance.
     
  4. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    Now that's a guy who has put a LOT of rounds down range,

    Basically preaches:

    1 - Full arm extension
    2 - Stance perpendicular to target
    3 - Thumb over thumb hold
    4 - Keep both hands as near to bore axis as safely possible
    5 - Finger pad use on trigger versus joint
    6 - SHOOT A LOT
    7 - Sights "crystal clear...... slightly fuzzy"...... not sure about this one

    Looks like he was using a stock .45 cal. Wonder what modifications were made to it though.
     
  5. MainStreetIowa

    MainStreetIowa

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    The "monstrous" kick of the .45ACP is something that you will just have to get used to. :upeyes:

    Sorry to be a jerk, but when your testicles descend you will see that the .45ACP isn't anywhere near the kicker you thought it was. It's a *****cat, really.
     
  6. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    I figured one like this would come around. No biggy.... I do hope that they do indeed drop one day since combat and death never got them to. It's all a matter of getting used to it but I was nonetheless curious about whether anyone had done soemthing to offset the issue. You know, modifying the gun to improve the overall shootability of it.
     
  7. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Try a stainless steel guide rod with a 15# spring, and you should have less muzzle flip and less perceived recoil.
     
  8. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    Thanks, I will try that. Should be interesting experimenting. Found a two-stage spring / stainless guide rod assembly a few minutes during a search. Will order it and try that as well.
     
  9. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    You don't have to shoot a lot to be good. That's a myth, however, the more you shoot, and the better you work on your stance, etc. the better you will become. And your FRONT sight should be clear, the TARGET should be blurry.

    I also don't agree with how he said the military is 20 years behind. The Marine Corps taught me exactly EVERYTHING he said in that video, and I shoot quite well because of it. So as far as Marine MP's, they ARE up to date on current techniques. I finished MP school in September of 09'.

    -Cody
     
  10. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    I agree fully. I learned to shoot my "weapons system :)" quite well. Now just getting back into focusing on pistols since I have the time and opportunity to focus. I'm just really enjoying learning about and "upgrading" my 2 test Glocks.

    By the way...... thanks for serving....
     
  11. geronimo509

    geronimo509

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    You can change all of the things listed in posts before me. However, if I was a betting man, I would bet that you aren't the strongest person. If you workout and get stronger you will be able to control the flip of the muzzle. I would focus on your core muscles, arms, shoulders, and hands.
     
  12. M4J0R T0M

    M4J0R T0M

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    Try to lock your wrists and use a slight bend in your elbows. When you shoot try to let your elbows absorb the recoil instead of your hands/wrists. This helped me with shooting my .40 G27 which most people would agree has more muzzle flip and felt recoil than it's .45 big brother.
     
  13. JoeInKS

    JoeInKS

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    Over 6' and about 220 but admittedly never really focused working out my wrists / forearms just running and PT. Good advice, I was thinking that I should focus more on those areas. Definitely won't hurt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  14. AR15Madness

    AR15Madness

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    I tend to keep my target focused especially when they are moving. I like to look at my target. Once I'm lined up after I draw I don't look at my sights clearly. I put the blurry front sight post on my target.
     
  15. CynicX

    CynicX

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    If you think a round is too large of a caliber then you shouldnt be shooting it. At least not without practice. .45acp is a good round, once of my favorites if you cant control it I would consider a heavier weapon however that is only a bandaid to a problem.

    While I admit I never shot a glock 45acp I own a Kimber 1911 and it is as easy and controllable as my recently owned glock 17. I would just suggest practice. Considering I'm relatively small in stature if I can do it any one should be able too...

    Less then a 1" group

    http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x12/CynicX/?action=view&current=MVI_0143.flv
     
  16. English

    English

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    JoeInKS,
    If you get someone with strong wrists to hold a fist out in front of them and make their wrist stiff or locked, then you hold their wrist in one hand and fist in the other, and without warning bend it up or down, you will find that it is not locked at all. This is because people make their wrist stiff by tightening the sets of muscles that are used to bend the wrist to an equal and opposite extent. If you bend their wrist upward, the muscles which bend the wrist downwards resist your action but the muscles which bend it upwards aid your action. There is muscle drag, of course, so stretching the down muscles takes more force than the static force in the muscle. You can't do this to yourself because you know what is coming!

    The only way round this is to lock the wrist against the bony limit of its travel. That is, bend it down as far as it will go. Then only the down muscles are in action and the up muscles are relaxed. This does reduce muzzle flip and should be less tiring but I am not convinced of the actuality!

    You can't do this with the shooting hand because the pistol would point down too much unless you use a very bent elbow with the pistol at eye level very much like the action portrait of General Custer. I do wonder if he really did that and if he knew why.

    You can use it for the support hand, and I do, but it is likely to take a major shift of your two handed grip style and will take a lot of time to adapt to. Experiment to see how you can place your support hand using that grip position.

    D.R. Middlebrooks started me on this route and it is part of his Fistfire system, but his system puts the support hand thumb straight along the frame and the shooting hand thumb over it. This does not work for me as my thumbs don't articulate enough at the joint near the web of the hand. My shooting hand thumb goes along the grip to just above the magazine release, like a single handed grip, and the hollow in the palm of the support hand locks in place on top of it. You can't really use a clamshell grip action with this and so you have to push/pull to keep hand contact. The Middlebrooks system looks rather like the modern isosceles because you are square to the target but its action is very different.

    Unlike the modern isosceles, this style takes most of the recoil in the shooting hand and the muzzle flip in the support hand. For what it is worth, the MI people say that you should not worry about the extent of muzzle flip as long as the muzzle comes down to the same place. Bullseye shooters care even less because they have plenty of time and wish to minimize shake by minimizing muscle tension. Muzzle flip can also be controlled by anticipating the recoil and timing a downward pull as the pistol fires. This is quick but inaccurate as you can't time it well enough and so produce vertical stringing. This is usually considered a form of flinch and, whether it is or not, it is very hard to get out of it. At least you are not suffering from that!

    I suppose I should have asked why you find muzzle flip so much of a problem before I wrote all this.

    English
     
  17. CBennett

    CBennett

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    grip and stance.