Recoil

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Bluescot, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Bluescot

    Bluescot

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    Every gun that I've shot has produced some recoil from a BB gun up a hot round from a 45-70. It seems to happen each and every time and becomes downright dependable. If you pull the trigger.....there will be some recoil. Muzzle brakes can moderate the amount of recoil and usually in doing so, increase the noise sometimes dramatically. But yet there still is that factor of recoil. I was watching a African safari episode on TV and saw a hunter putting a finishing shot on a large antelope species that I can't recall the name of now. He thought he had a live round in the barrel and when he went to shoot at about 15 yards, his flinch was so pronounced that the front sight on his barrel dropped down about 5-6 inches in anticipation of the recoil. Probably a wee bit embarrassing for him.

    We talk on these forums about rounds from Glocks that produce "snappy" recoil and how it becomes a problem in the accuracy of that caliber/pistol. I understand the impact of recoil on follow up shots but for the first shot it seems to be a item of large concern. I am not a recoil lover by any means.....but ................each time you pull the trigger there will be some factor of recoil to deal with, either the BB gun type or the 45-70 type.

    It seems like recoil is something we have to live with. Kind of like a wide receiver in football, when you catch the ball you are mostly likely in most situations to get hit.....so hang on to the ball. You can get hit and hang on or you can get hit and lose the ball but normally you will get hit.

    Practice is helpful and training more so. I've found that shooting pistols at much longer ranges is revealing about my recoil management skills. If I flinch with a G30 when shooting at 150 yards the bullet impact will be off by 15-20 yards and embarrassing for me with my buddies. If the recoil becomes a major factor in shooting the prudent thing to do would seem to be go down in caliber or loading.

    In the end whenever you pull the trigger there will be recoil. If we are to become proficient in our accuracy we will have to learn to deal with it at whatever level we choose. Hope that makes some sense.
     
  2. G29guy06

    G29guy06

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    If we're referring more to the "flinch" (anticipation of the recoil). I've found that shooting (practicing) w/ different platforms helps. Example: KelTec PF9 has a very long trigger pull and no real reset (unlike a glock)...so mixing them up during range time makes it harder for the brain to "expect" the shot and you end up having better mechanics (so I've found)
     

  3. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    Er...OK.

    What in the OP is specific only to Glocks that warrents the OP being in General Glocking forum?
     
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  4. phonejack

    phonejack

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    I suspect ammo manufacturers use a fast powder for most pistol cartridges. This most likely is due to cost. If you reload you can go to a medium burn rate powder and get the same velocity and less felt recoil.
     
  5. 125K9

    125K9

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    Yes sir, what blows out yonder way is bound to push back this a way a bit.
     
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  6. harold63

    harold63 I'm not retired

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    Flinching is probably why he had to use the 'finishing touch', in the first place.
     
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  7. Uncle Don

    Uncle Don Wood butcher

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    Bulleted recoil (as opposed to shotshell) is a calculation that is a product from bullet weight, charge weight, velocity and the weight of the gun. If you are suggesting that a medium powder is more charge weight, ok, but speed of the powder doesn't apply - only the velocity of the bullet itself.

     
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  8. Grovenator

    Grovenator

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    Well, GLOCKS DO have recoil don't they? smh
     
  9. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    No, its because most pistols have 4 or 5 inch barrels and optimum pressures and velocities are not possible with medium burning powders in that length barrel using standard for caliber bullet weights.
     
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  10. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    It's the other way around.

    And the operative issue with most pistols is not recoil, it's muzzle flip. It is relatively easy to learn to look through the muzzle blast and manage the gun coming back at you. But when the sights lift off target, you have to wait for them to return.

    Let's say you have the mechanical ability to trigger 0.15 splits, and you're a competent shooter. Case #1, you have an Open gun, 9 major, big muzzle blast, lots of recoil straight back. But the dot stays on target, so just keep your eyes open and shoot 0.15 splits.

    Case #2, Production gun, minor power, much less recoil, irons, muzzle flips when the gun goes off. On 15 yard paper, it takes 0.25 for your mount on the gun to allow the sights to return to the A zone. Now you shoot 0.25 splits.
     
  11. Rocky7

    Rocky7 Proud NRA Life Patron Member, Life GSSF member

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    Actually the burn rate DOES have an impact on perceived muzzle lift.The faster powders generate quick responses while slow powders generate slower pushes.

    Myself I prefer faster powders as I can concentrate on faster recovery and acquisition. Other competitors prefer slower powders with heavier billets for that longer push.
     
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  12. Uncle Don

    Uncle Don Wood butcher

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    You would need to show me that variable in any known calculation for bulleted recoil. If you are using the word "perceived", then you can use anything that you personally feel, but actual pulse and free recoil is limited to the variables I mentioned.

    It is an area of some experience in that I authored a ballistics program prior to them being so widely available. It sold tens of thousands of copies. My data came from "Hatchers Notebook" by Gen Julian Hatcher and "Understanding Ballistics" by Robert A. Rinkler.
     
  13. Rocky7

    Rocky7 Proud NRA Life Patron Member, Life GSSF member

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    Glad to see those that author. I can only base my opinion on 50 years of reloading, and as much shooting and competing.
    Timed reactions prove to me most prefer a slower burning impulse powder, while myself prefer faster powders and my split times emulate such.

    Apparently muzzle lift and as I outline is becoming a more popular belief, might be time for a new book. Good Luck in your writing.
     
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  14. harold63

    harold63 I'm not retired

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    I agree with Rocky. Faster powder produces more muzzle flip. It stands to reason...the powder is burnt in the barrel and not the atmosphere. Use a fast powder in a short barrel 44 mag or larger bore and then use a slow powder in the same gun and compare. It will definitely be 'perceived'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
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  15. Uncle Don

    Uncle Don Wood butcher

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    Again - perceived. I have 35 years myself and I understand your point about "perceived" and push vs snap. However, the actual calculation has been laid out well by experts for decades.

    No matter how many years I have loading before I check out, I'll never ascend to the level of Gen Julian Hatcher, and if you are, I'll buy your book. Just provide the calculation with that variable.
     
  16. Rocky7

    Rocky7 Proud NRA Life Patron Member, Life GSSF member

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    Appreciate your belief that Columbus discovered America in 1492 and that also has been written and in many textbooks.

    I'm not here to convince you or others but disagreeing.
     
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  17. Uncle Don

    Uncle Don Wood butcher

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    I'm not disagreeing with you about "perceived". I shot registered skeet for many years and recoil wasn't anything that I considered. However, that doesn't mean that it didn't exist. If I shoot a 30-06 in a prone position, the perceived recoil is higher than if I stand and shoot the same load. The actual recoil however, is the same for both.

    You're right, neither of us will convince the other. However, I'll stick with Hatcher and so will the rest of the ballistics world.
     
  18. Rocky7

    Rocky7 Proud NRA Life Patron Member, Life GSSF member

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    I reply in finality that in pistol lift, I prefer fast lift with little push. Most pistol shooters look for slow pushes. I have tailored my reloads and prefer carry ammo that projects faster lifts.

    How you wish to address shotgun or rifle is not a concern nor an interest of mine.

    My competition and carry will continue to follow my Perception, again good Luck to you in further writing.
     
  19. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I really enjoyed this thread so far.

    In my experience a lot of factors go into even the most experienced shooters reaction to recoil, even down to a given day. Anticipation (flinch) is a funny thing. I think it even comes and goes day by day. I never verified this, but I suspect I get a tendency to anticipate shots a little more if I have drank too much coffee before shooting.

    A long DA pull on a lighter framed magnum revolver when shooting full house loads is pretty difficult to eliminate anticipation on, at least after the first shot or so. Not seeing some anticipation creep in when shooting full house 45-70's in a lightweight lever gun just means your frontal lobotomy was a success. :)
     
  20. harold63

    harold63 I'm not retired

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    Maybe change 'perceived' to 'discern'. They are synonymous, but discern may work better. I believe Rocky is saying he can discern between greater muzzle flip with fast powder verses less muzzle flip with slow powder. In this case, I have to agree.