Glock 17 Recoil spring weight in a G17

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by WinstonSmith, May 20, 2007.

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  1. WinstonSmith

    WinstonSmith Guest

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    What would be the best weight spring to use with a G17? I shoot only 147gr and it does seem to have more recoil than 115gr, so I'm thinking that the stock 17lb. spring is weaker than necessary if I'm shooting only 147 gr. bullets.

    I'm thinking about the Glockmeister captured tungsten guide rod with a 20 lb. spring. Is that reasonable? Could I go to a 22 lb spring without getting into FTF/FTE problems?

    My overall goal is to reduce recoil and muzzle flip without compromising reliability.
     
  2. tinman517

    tinman517

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  3. WinstonSmith

    WinstonSmith Guest

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    Yes, I have read that, but I don't know if I believe it. Why would applying the recoil faster to the hand make it feel like less recoil? Sounds like the old "push" vs "snap" issue of the .45 vs the .40. A heavier spring should protect you from recoil.... or so it seems to me. I don't understand the statement that the lighter spring means you do less work.

    Anyway, my question is about how high I can go with the spring weight in a G17 shooting WWB 147 gr. JHP before I have a problem with the action.

    Also, what is your experience with the Glockmeister tungsten spring guide rod? Does it reduce muzzle flip?
     
  4. hankfan79

    hankfan79

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    I use a 13lb spring when I shoot 147's. It makes a noticeable difference. When I used a heavier springs, I notice that the slide slams forward causing me to loose sight picture.

    Just my opinion.
     
  5. WinstonSmith

    WinstonSmith Guest

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    Hey hankfan.... I grew up in the Huntsville,Guntersville, Albertville area. Are you from around there?

    Are you saying that when the slide slams forward, your muzzle dips below the target.... sort of reverse muzzle flip with heavy springs? How would you gauge overall recoil with different weight springs?

    I understand that the spring manufacturers warn that you can get frame damage from springs that are too light. Doesn't that mean that there is more recoil transfered to the frame and therefore to the hand?
     
  6. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    Its less work because you have less force to overcome. You can believe it, its been tried and true for many years by the worlds best shooters.

    40 vs 45 is flip vs push and torque.

    Yes a heavey spring often causes muzzle dip upon closing.
     
  7. hankfan79

    hankfan79

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    IMO, I feel less recoil with a lighter spring. I run a 13lb spring in my G34 and my G21. I have been shooting IDPA for a couple of years and have not experienced any frame damage to my glocks. I am not not an expert in firearms by any means, but I notice that my follow up shots and doubles are more accurate and consistent this way. I do not think that 13lb is beyong the guns limits. I know some competitors that use a 13 lb spring and cut extra coils off of it.

    Just get you a couple of different springs and try them out.

    Yes I live in the Huntsville area. I am not from here but I have been shooting with all he locals here for a few years.
     
  8. nanotech9

    nanotech9 Guest

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    I also use a 13lb spring with a hand turned SS lead-filled captured guide rod.

    I noticed a difference with regular WWB 115gr rounds, but then i started reloading and tried 127 and 146gr rounds also... the 13lb spring worked best of the 13 / 15 / 17lb combo i bought.

    I just ran some JHP's through it the other day with the 13lb spring also and its great.

    Although this is my match gun, i've got a IWB holster for it and carry it on occasion. I trust it more than any other gun i own, simply based on teh fact that i shoot it the most in competition and have the least amount of failures (err, NONE!) will all of my tweaks and mods to it.

    When i installed the 13lb spring, my accuracy went up, and instead of placing towards the bottom of 20 shooters in our local USPSA matches, i moved up to 8th place last match.

    WOW.
     
  9. sjz

    sjz

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    I need the same advice as to whether I should change my stock recoil spring in my G17. I shoot IDPA SSP and USPSA production.

    I just switched to the Atlanta Arms 9mm 147gr JHP reloads. which are softer than the WWB 115gr and UMC 115gr. Last time for the first time ever I had an extraction/ejection error and had a reverse stovepipe.

    It seems through research on the forums and with shooters that with this type of load shooters go to a recoil spring with +- 13 pounds. Is this correct? It makes sense that the softer load may not be able to overcome the recoil spring tension enough to cycle the slide all the way back. Add a little limp wristing into the mix and you get the stovepipe that I had.

    Does Glock sell a 13# or 15# standard recoil spring assembly for the G17?

    Anyone know how many coils to trim off to reduce the stock 17# spring to 15# or 13#?

    BTW This 9mm ammo is the same that is suplied to Team Glock / David Sevigny so if anyone knows how their Glocks are setup that would be useful.
     
  10. nanotech9

    nanotech9 Guest

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    i just had a conversation w/ one of our engineering interns here at the company... I learned something that i suspected, but didnt actually know.

    Spring rates are measured in weights per x... as in lb's per inch of travel.

    So, if you compress a 17lb spring 1", you get 17lbs of resistance.

    But, if you compress the same spring, 2", now all of a sudden you have 34lbs of resistance.

    Cutting down a stock spring is not the greatest idea. I did, just to try it before my ISMI springs came in, and it made a LITTLE difference, but it causes other problems.

    (the following numbers are guesses, or fictional, used only to show how the math works)

    Say for example, on a stock glock spring you have 1" of preload, or about 17lbs. (that is, the stock spring is compressed 1" to fit on the captured guide rod and be installed in the gun)

    Now, say you cut off 1/2" of the springs coils. While you may have only reduced your overall compressed weight by 8.5lbs, you've reduced your preload down to 8.5lbs total, from 17lbs. Well, before, you had 17lbs shoving the slide into battery, now, its been cut in half. In fact, 8.5lbs may not even force it into battery, or keep it there if you have a stock striker spring.

    So, the proper way to do this is to order the correct length and rate of spring from a company like ISMI. They're pretty cheap really - you get a 13 / 15 / 17lb 3 pack for about $25.


    Now, the only way none of those numbers fly is if they 13 / 15 / 17lb rates they're talking about are being measured over the entire length of the spring - i.e. if when the spring is fully compressed, if produces 17lb of force.
     
  11. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    I dont know how ISMI measures the springs but I do know that trimming them is a viable and effective tuning option.
     
  12. nanotech9

    nanotech9 Guest

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    It definitely is. I mean obviously if you cut coils off, it reduces the overall force of the spring, and the pre-load.

    but as we both know, if you cut off too much, the slide wont go into battery anymore.

    You wouldnt want to try to make a stock spring as light as a 13lb ISMI spring by cutting off coils.

    But if you start with a 15lb spring and need it a bit lighter, the have at it... cut a coil or two off. Just don't get too carried away.

    I'm no pro and i imagine the guys at Custom Glock Racing have a LOT more experience with any of this stuff than i do.

    I'm just trying to apply little bits and pieces as i learn them. (Some of which i've learned directly from their website!)



    I want to clarify what i meant here...

    Cutting a few coils off the stock glock spring isnt going to cause problems with the gun or spring in your case (as long as its just a few coils).... I was talking in relation to keeping all the numbers right on preload etc.

    Anyway, like CGR said - cutting off a few coils is a way to tune your stock spring and may get you the slightly reduced spring rate you need to make your rounds eject reliably.

    Give it a go and see what happens.
     
  13. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    Yep, its just a way to fine tune it to get what you want.
     
  14. sjz

    sjz

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    Well I have a couple of extra stock G17 recoil springs so I guess I will try some snipping.

    I will start with snipping 3 coils and see how it feels. Then go to 4 coils and re evaluate. If 4 runs good that will probably be the end of it.

    I don't want to do anything too drastic. I am only looking to make sure when I pull the trigger it goes bang and also maybe fine tune it a bit.

    Thanks for all the info and links etc.

    Oh BTW here is another article I found from Dale Rhea regarding fine tuning the glock- great info.

    http://www.sportshooter.com/gssf/dalerhea_dremeling.asp

    He takes the Glock guide rod with spring and chucks it in a drill and holds it against something abrasive like sandpaper to remove some of the spring material from the outer edge. Makes sense, however, he doesn't mention how much to remove from the outer diameter.
     
  15. J.P.

    J.P. Intergalactic

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    the ISMI 13# springs are what I run in my G17s and they have never let me down.
     
  16. sjz

    sjz

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    What is the easiest way to trim the coils on the stock spring assembley?

    How do you take the spring off the guide rod?

    Did some searches and couldn't find it although I lknow I saw it somewhere.
     
  17. WinstonSmith

    WinstonSmith Guest

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    I've now tried the tungsten rod and 20 lb spring in a G17. It definitely has much less muzzle flip than the stock setup and I think somewhat less felt recoil... it feels less snappy... but that may be because there is less muzzle flip. I will have to do extensive reliability testing but no problems so far.

    I'm starting to think that this controversy rests on the explanation for muzzle flip. If it comes from the initial recoil while the slide is forward, then slowing the slide with a heavy spring would increase flip. But if the muzzle flip comes from the collision of the slide with the frame stop at the rearmost position, then a heavy spring should decrease flip. I've seen both explanations in print and both may be true to some extent...

    I have changed two things here.... rod weight and spring constant.... so I can't separate the effects of the two... but the combo works great. There is slight initial muzzle flip but then the muzzle pops back down as the slide comes forward..The muzzle ends up dead level. If this setup turns out to be reliable, I would really recommend it.
     
  18. nanotech9

    nanotech9 Guest

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    you went the wrong way... trust the HUNDREDS of competitive shooters out there and try a 15lb spring.

    the snappiness is from the heavier spring. Its pushing back harder and longer than it should be.

    I just typed up three more explanations, but theres nothing i can do to change your mind if you dont want to believe anyone anyway. you've already gone against the advice of several EXCELLENT shooters on here, so theres nothing i can do to convince you otherwise.
     
  19. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    Most of the positive change you feel is from the rod.
     
  20. coverdog

    coverdog Platinum Member

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    I fixed your qoute for you.


    From what I have seen on here over the years you can't convince the ones that don't want to believe a lighter spring makes for quicker, more accurate shooting. They think heavier better and not about the slide slamming home when it closes or the chance of the slide not opening far enough and causing the occasional feeding problems the heavy springs can induce.

    Why in the world would anyone need a 20lb. spring in a 9mm? Really, that is way overboard. I use lighter weight springs in my 10mm. I they needed heavier springs glock would have put them in from the factory. They usually go on the heavy side to cover all bases I would say.
    :popcorn: