close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Real Life Shooting

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by AA11285, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. AA11285

    AA11285

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I suppose this question is geared mostly towards LEO and Military folks, but anyone with real life experience is welcome to reply. I've heard that one-shot stops are a myth, unless you're lucky enough to get a CNS hit on the bad guy. So anyone who has been involved in a justified shooting, could you tell us what your experience is? How does the person generally react to getting shot? Do they continue their motions or do they drop to the ground immediately? Do they stop mainly because of psychological reasons (they drop realizing they got shot) or does the shot physically incapacitate them? If you all have any stories, details on the variables involved would be great (i.e. what caliber was used, how many rounds, was the person shot under the influence of something etc) This should be interesting .... :popcorn:
     
  2. BhamGlock

    BhamGlock

    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    .50 BMG from my Barrett M95, 1 round, I think he was a zombie based on how slow he moved, but forensic analysis was inconclusive :whistling:
     

  3. Gary7

    Gary7

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Location:
    Upstate, SC
    Is that because there wasn't enough left of him to analyze? :supergrin:
     
  4. rohanreginald

    rohanreginald Novice

    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Most of my shootings occur with a 12 gauge shotgun. I use no.1-4 steel shot out of a modified choke. 90% of my hits are single shot drops. Occasionally I need to wring their necks to finish the job.
     
  5. Cole125

    Cole125 Silver Member

    Messages:
    7,584
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Far West, USA
    Just some advise, most military guys do not like to talk about when they had to engage the enemy. I had a roommate who was/is a Marine and he never liked to talk about his two tours in Afghanistan.

    The ones who brag about it are either sick SOBs or making up stories to get attention. :dunno:
     
  6. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

    Messages:
    18,216
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Gallows humor works to keep away zombies.:wavey:
     
  7. capecodcowboy

    capecodcowboy

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Location:
    Gilford, NH
    One shot one kill is not a myth and is a byproduct of a LOT of training.
    With a sidearm however the training dictates three shots..(triple tap)....two to the thoracic cavity and one to the head. One maybe enough but in the age of body armor no chances are taken and a finishing shot is always taken. Just my .02
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  8. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    7,154
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Wherever they pay me to park


    It depends on the person. Some people get hit in a survivable place, and fall over curl up and die.

    Some take repeated hits from everything up to a 50 cal, and decide they don't want to die, and continue fighting.
     
  9. sigcalcatrant

    sigcalcatrant

    Messages:
    6,552
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Civilians are pretty much the same. It's bad form and bad manners to ask.
     
  10. Adjuster

    Adjuster

    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    4,352
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Location:
    Port Richey Florida USA
    They leisurely walk down the street looking for their girlfriends. Ping pong players are tough mo fo's!
     
  11. Gary7

    Gary7

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Location:
    Upstate, SC
    That's been my experience. My dad was a Marine in Korea and my uncle was in the Army during WWII. I've never once heard either one tell "war stories" that included shooting the enemy. And I never asked.
     
  12. MetalSlugIV

    MetalSlugIV

    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    I interviewed my high school algebra teacher for a history class assingment. He was a Vietnam vet. I knew certain subjects where taboo but an a-hole student blurted out "DID YA SHOOT ANYONE!" I was trying to get his story as a whole for my report but noooo some d-bag ruined it. My teacher actually gave him this answer "Lets put it this way, I was shot at, and I returned fire". That answer was more than that student deserved, that is for sure.
     
  13. Airborne Infantryman

    Airborne Infantryman Nuclear Trunk Monkey

    Messages:
    3,514
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    2nd Squad shot a Hadj about 13 times with 5.56; hits ranged from COM to extremities.....he fell on the ground and stayed alive........then died right after they called in the birds to come get him. It really depends on the person, and circumstances. I will tell you one thing I will always remember, as I watched them work on the Hadj from the turret of my MRAP; when Doc Sniffen hit Hadj with the FAST1, he popped back to life for a split second. :shocked: As for MY personal exploits, its as another said; I don't talk about it much unless I'm in one of my 'moods', combined with Alcohol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  14. arclight610

    arclight610

    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Actually, most of the time we didn't put up with the bull crap hastle of shooting. The SAWs would chatter a bit, then we would bring up the SMAWs,AT4's, 203's, and bring the building down. If there were tanks or tracks nearby, then we call them in. It's fun to watch them do thier work. When we were actually in buildings, we always used frags. Grenades first, then the stack would move in. Grenades did 1 of 2 things. They blew and killed everyone inside, or everyone ran outside and got killed by the 240's holding security. When we ran out of grenades we used stones that looked like grenades. They couldn't tell the difference and they would still run outside.
     
  15. Airborne Infantryman

    Airborne Infantryman Nuclear Trunk Monkey

    Messages:
    3,514
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Which portion of OIF were you in? I was OIF 07-09..........we didn't ever do stuff like that, and AFAIK, RoE is the same over there for all units.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  16. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

    Messages:
    1,164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Hrmm, I wish I knew where the story was, however there was an officer who shot a suspect (drug induced) some 30-times (actual hits) before he went down. And he was actively engaging the LEO the whole time. It was crazy... I want to say he was using 9mm or .40S&W (the LEO).

    -Cody
     
  17. AA11285

    AA11285

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I wasn't trying to be rude by asking the question. I can see how walking up to a police officer and asking them about shooting someone would be in bad taste, but I was just curious to see if anyone would be kind enough to share their experience.
     
  18. texmex

    texmex

    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    663
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Location:
    Central Texas
    In 1976 I shot a guy with a 44 magnum 240 gr. semi-wadcutter. It barely grazed him and he dropped like he was pole axed. He was treated and then taken to jail. I think he just fainted from the surprise of being shot and the noise and muzzle flash of the 44. He was standing just in front of my patrol car holding an RG 22 in a two handed hold trying to shoot me after robbing a convienience store, kidnapping the clerk, taking her to a remote area and sexually assaulting her. He stated later he intended to shoot me when I got out of the car. I surprised him by shooting through my own windshield.

    In 1983, I shot a guy twice with a 45 ACP (185gr. Silvertip out of a Colt Commander). We were in pursuit of a stolen vehicle occupied by an escaped convict who started shooting at us with a stolen 357 Magnum. He lost control at a T intersection and spun out. We then met drivers side to drivers side. I fired six rounds hitting the windshield twice near the inspection sticker, the window frame near the inspection sticker, him, the headrest behind his head and the doorpost. The round entered through the sternum, went through his right lung and exited his right armpit. The exit wound was about the size if a half dollar. He did not know he had been shot. About 10 seconds later, he started to feel like he was going to pass out. His vehicle had completed its 270 degree spin and was continuing down the road. I drove up to the right side of his vehicle and shot through the right rear window and front seat striking him just on the right side of the spine between his shoulder blades. This bullet stopped about three inches in after kind of glancing off his spine. He said this wound felt like someone had hit him in the back with a sledge hammer and was very painful.

    He kind of got tired of being shot and surrendered. He was able to throw his weapon out the window, throw the keys out the window, open the door and then stand up next to the car. This guy was about 5'6" 135 pounds and had no drugs or alcohol in his system. He did have plenty of adrenaline though.

    What did I learn from this? Don't stop shooting until the threat is neutralized. A wussy might drop just from the noise of a gun going off but a guy with the will to fight may need a central nervous system hit to be incapacitated or need to loose enough blood to have his central nervous system or muscular system begin to shut down. That will leave him plenty of time to continue to do what got him shot in the first place and the only defense against that is to continue shooting and making hits. Getting shot or even shot at is usually not part of the bad guys game plan and when you start shooting, it tends to rattle them especially if they are being hit. The excaped convict stated that the reason he didn't shoot when we were face to face was all the glass, metal and platic fragments hitting him in my first flurry of shots. When he saw the blood on his shirt, he thought he had been cut by the glass.

    When facing a deadly threat, shoot fast, shoot often, shoot straight. In both of these situations, I was sitting in the drivers seat of my patrol car. When you realize that deadly force is needed, don't waste time taking off the seat belt or getting out of the car or talking on the radio, just shoot. The fastest way to draw is to have the gun already in your hand.
     
  19. AA11285

    AA11285

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    This is exactly the kind of respond I was hoping to get with this thread. VERY interesting story, thank you for sharing!!
     
  20. boyscoutG36

    boyscoutG36 Armorer

    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Colorful Colorado
    There are no absolutes in combat, the tools used are only one variable. Proper shot placement is vital regardless of caliber. I have personally seen the 9mm Ranger 127+p+ perform two separate stops of this kind, both shooters struck the sternum and the rounds entered the heart. I used a 870 to great effect once, 8 pellet Federal Tactical to the sternum with the same results. But in each case a 22 mag may have had the same effect. Hope this helps, I'm not trying to be cryptic but I'm not comfortable posting specifics.