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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by GSD17, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. GSD17

    GSD17 Thread Killer

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    Just so as everyone keeps this in mind... Try not to ask any questions about illegal radio modifications here. I know that most of the amateur radio mods are OK, but mainly : transmitting on commercial freqs, cb freqs, or fixing scanners to intercept cell phone freqs. The same rules about illegal modifications apply here just as they do about firearms in the other forums. I am in no way a moderator of this site, but just wanted to point this out since Sidearmor brought this to our attention in another post. Thanks
     
  2. N8WNB

    N8WNB

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  3. GSD17

    GSD17 Thread Killer

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    Also, if anyone else thinks of anything that should be listed in the above category, let me know. Just so as we cover all the bases.
     
  4. USPcompact

    USPcompact

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    No talk of speeding. It's illegal and all.
     
  5. GSD17

    GSD17 Thread Killer

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    Lol, aint that the truth. But in all seriousness. They just dont want this site to explain how to do anything illegal. Such as modifying a radio to operate on restricted bands or modifying a firearm to operate fully automatic. It would be different if people didnt know how to speed and wanted to figure out how to get their cars to do it. Not being a jerk about it or anything, I'm just trying to help Eric keep his rules here.
     
  6. uhlawpup

    uhlawpup Cittadinanza Italiana

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    And you're doing a fine job of it. Thanks.

    One of my pet peeves is people illegally modifying and using radios. Radio rules and regulations are international in nature, and these people don't realize how serious the enforcement arm of the FCC is about certain types of violations, especially in this time of heightened security.

    Mind you, there's one household in Houston that's running a very poorly installed, very high power CB setup in the 27 MHz band that's about to find out just how serious these boys can be.

    I don't know if I'll will be told of the outcome, but a complaint has been lodged through some very powerful channels, and I've got a feeling the action will be forthcoming and, to quote Chubby in Our Gang to Miss McGillicuddy, "fluent!"
     
  7. USPcompact

    USPcompact

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    I honestly agree with you. The ONLY reason I have a 257 is that it simply looks better than the other chrome-faced boxes of metal that are out there. I hardly EVER tx on the Magnum, and I NEVER go into the ham channels (I honestly don't think I could if I wanted to). That said, the eagerness with which I've seen ham people jump on CBers (in this forum and various others) is quite distasteful, to say the least.
     
  8. uhlawpup

    uhlawpup Cittadinanza Italiana

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    Actually, USP, most hams don't mind CBers who follow the rules and regulations. In fact, many very knowledgeable and active hams started as CBers.

    What irks amateur radio operators the most is those who modify and/or use their radios in an illegal manner, or who conspire to and buy illegally imported, configured or modified units. Why? Well here are a couple of reasons.

    1. Those who run excessive power or use illegal frequencies usually cause major interference to consumers, and, with the increasing dependence of modern society on its electronics, this interference becomes ever more costly in time and productivity. And who gets blamed for the illegal interference? Hams. Why? Because most not involved in the hobby don't know the difference between licensed amateurs employing good amateur practice and the ignorant or malicious illegal radio user. I remember many years ago getting threatened because it was thought that I was interfering with some Sunday afternoon football broadcast, when, after calming the guy down, it was found that not only wasn't my radio on, but that the interference was coming from a friend of his on the next street using an illegally high-powered CB amplifier that was improperly matched to the antenna.

    2. Amateurs are just that...amateurs. The word comes from the French, and roughly means one who does something for the love of it, not for any personal, professional or pecuniary gain. True amateurs are genuinely saddened to see people take up precious spectrum space with the profanity, verbal abuse, poor operating technique and illegal activities that seem to proliferate in the 27 MHz band. We realize that not all CBers are that way. Unfortunately, the good guys with their legal 4 watts out are being covered up by the "band bosses" with who-knows-how-much power, with the included unsupressed harmonics.

    When Citizen Band first came to be in the 1960s, it was designed as an inexpensive, low-cost method of communications for families and small businesses. I remember when the two taxi companies in the small town I lived in at the time use CB to dispatch their taxis. Then, in the 70s, I believe, there were those that wanted CB opened up to hobby use for the folks who just couldn't get their amateur licenses because it was too hard for them to learn what was necessary to do so. Most amateurs fought the proposal, but lost. And, since it took place at a near peak in the sunspot cycle, and because CB - including illegal operations - had spread to other countries, most administrations were forced to abandon enforcement attempts in the 27 MHz band worldwide, except for the most egregious offenders who were causing interference to other services. (That enforcement, by the way, continues today, even with limited resources.)

    You know, with testing for amateur radio being made easier, and the requirements for knowledge of Morse Code being pretty much done away with worldwide (although I will continue to renew my 2nd Class Radiotelegraph - it was too hard to get!), perhaps CB should be cleaned up and returned to its original purpose of a low cost family and business communications system, and remove its "hobby" use from the rules. Of course, since other services have come to the fore because of technology advances such as the Family Radio Service and GMRS, I doubt that this will be done, even if it were remotely feasible.

    No, hams have no quarrel with legal CBers, and even help them when they need it. It's those who break the rules that we despise.

    Oh, and if you think a corps of trained communicators has no value in these modern times of internet and cell phone, just ask your friends in Indonesia, India and Thailand about the value of amateur radio.
     
  9. Squid.HM2

    Squid.HM2

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    its all C.W. Macalls fault, back in 60s to mid 70s 23 chan. was fine and my yaesu was great. Then every little kid had one and we needed 40 chan. then everyone had a VFO and a linear amp... how times change
     
  10. Cross-X

    Cross-X CLM

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    What with wireless everything becoming more and more popular, there is less bandwidth available to share, so keeping it legal is all the more important.
     
  11. GSD17

    GSD17 Thread Killer

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    I used to enjoy CB, it is fun for close range stuff, when you are 4-wheeling with buddies and stuff like that, but there are so many people out here running WAY hight powered amps and illegal radios that you cant get a word to someone next to you for being talked over by somone miles away. And most of the time its just a big cuss-fest. There are still a few good cbers, but not many. I hardly ever cut any of mine on anymore. Its sad really. I wish the FCC would start enforcement on them again. But I know they are way to busy.
     
  12. ouki

    ouki

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    I am a owner/operator, so I am out there with this daily, and I will tell you this. MOST CB'ers do it border-line legal, but like myself, most keep them turned off most of the time. I keep my 7800 on 520 all the time and many "Truckers" are starting to switch over and get their ticket. So there is getting to be more traffice on 520 from Truckers. It is nice to hear.. What gets my tizzle is that there are MANY ham-op's out there doing illegal Mods to CB's..
    I was at a Truckstop fueling one day and a Ham-op was trying to sell all his 2-m stuff to unlicensed truckers because he was going through a divorce and didn't want his wife getting any.. But still floored me that he would be out there doing this, I went to say something to him and he got real nasty about it. He never gave out his call, but it wouldn't have mattered since it is not illegal to sell your stuff to anyone, just for those to use it.
    But back to the Ham-op's doing "mods" to CB's...There is one out in Perryville OH that besides selling all the 10m rigs (Galaxy's, Rangers and the like) he will install 200w heat right inside the CB and do any other Mod that you may wish..
    It is just stunning to me.. a) that he hasn't been shut down and does a huge business, and b) that he would do this at all.

    O
     
  13. GeorgeAtl

    GeorgeAtl

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    I hate to show my ignorance, but can someone tell me what "520" is? I've been around CB and Scanning and SWL for many years, but don't know what "520" is...

    Thanks!!
     
  14. ouki

    ouki

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    146.520 This is a common freq in 2-meter Ham radio. It is more or less Hams version of channel 19 without all the bs.
     
  15. Kirkcdl

    Kirkcdl

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    Add to that ^ it's a simplex frequency,meaning radio-to-radio,no repeater involved.
     
  16. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    As a licensed Ham for 20 years, I would like to point out one common misconception about radio moding. First, I'd like to say that it is certainly very important to respect the band plans that are in place and there are indeed many rules and regulations that govern the use of the spectrum that MUST be honored, but in regards to moding the word "illegal" is thrown around way to liberally. It is not illegal to discuss radio mods. In most cases, it is not even illegal to perform mods that allow out of band RX/TX (cell phone frequencies are a BIG NO-NO). It is only illegal to actually use the equipment outside the range that it has been type accepted for. Even then there is one VERY IMPORTANT exception, during an emergency you are allowed to use any frequency in any manner required in order to make contact and get help. This is an often overlooked exception and is the reason why the FCC doesn't shutdown the numerous mod databases that exist out there on the internet.
     
  17. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    It has never been illegal to modify non-Ham equipment to operate on Ham fequencies. This was intentionally allowed by the FCC. In the early days of Ham radio, there was very little equipment made specifically for Ham radio. In order to promote the service and make it easier for Hams to acquire equipment, the FCC allows Hams to take equipment built for other services and modify them to operate in the amateur radio service. This has always been the case. On the other hand, using modified Ham equipment to operate outside Ham frequencies is frowned upon by the FCC, but even then there are some important exceptions (see my post above).
     
  18. ouki

    ouki

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    MY whole point is, a Ham radio operator makes modifications to any CB .. CBs that are only allowed 4-watts transmit, and modifys it to transmit 200 watts. The modification is done on the inside of the radio, so it can miss detection. Is this Ham-op not doing someting that is illegal, of at least helping a peron break the law, by putting these mods into a radio that will be operated on the CB (11-m) band?

    And if it is such a grey area, then why in KY, if the DOT at the scale sees your rig with a 10-meter radio or heat, and you don't have your ham ticket, they take the radio out of your truck and confiscate it. period.. happend right in front of me last year.. I had my 2-m rig on my dash, I had to show PROOF that I had a ham ticket, even though my call is right on my doors..
    I explained:
    It is NOT illegal to own a piece of ham equipment, only to use it if you are not licensed.
    I was told, if I did not have a copy of my Ham ticket with me, I would lose the radio and to explain it to a judge.

    Chicken sh1t is what that was... But the point I was trying to make before the rant, was if it is such a grey area, then why in IN, KY and the like, are they ticketing for it..

    In Indiana, the scale thought I had a scanner on my dash, asked me to explain the radio, I did.. Then he told me, if it could scan, it would be technically illegal to have in a vehicle, because Indiana law strictly prohibits scanners from being in vehicles. A HAM radio that scans is technically illegal (according to this State cop).. and can be confiscated and the person using given heavy fines..

    So what gives there???????????

    Ouki
     
  19. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    Sounds like your state DOT has a lot of misinformed enforcement individuals. Like I said before, there seems to be more misunderstandings about the legality of when and where you can use radio equipment then there is about firearms. Ham operators have explicit protection at the federal level that excludes them from the kind of state and local level laws you are referring to. The bad news is, you would have one heck of a time trying to prove it in court and get your radio back. It would end up costing you much more then the lost equipment was worth, but I have no doubt that you would eventually win.

    As for the Ham op modifying CB equipment to run at 200W. Well, that isn't very wise, but yes it would be legal. It would only be illegal to use it at 200W on CB frequencies, not to possess it. Are you sure he isn't retuning for 10m at the same time? That would make more sense. If the mod allows operation on both 10m and 11m and the power level is selectable between normal and high, then I see no problem with this. The equipment could be used legally in both bands. BTW, the only way I could possibly see squeezing 200W out of a 4W rig would be to create a completely new final stage. That would be a difficult task to accomplish inside the existing case.
     
  20. R. Emmelman

    R. Emmelman Tired Member

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    It is permitted for an Amateur Radio operator in Indiana to have a portable police radio in his vehicle. I have a laminated copy of the law that I keep with me.



    IC 35-44-3-12
    Unlawful use of a police radio; exemptions; "police radio" defined
    Sec. 12. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
    (1) possesses a police radio;
    (2) transmits over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes; or
    (3) possesses or uses a police radio:
    (A) while committing a crime;
    (B) to further the commission of a crime; or
    (C) to avoid detection by a law enforcement agency;
    commits unlawful use of a police radio, a Class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Subsection (a)(1) and (a)(2) do not apply to:
    (1) a governmental entity;
    (2) a regularly employed law enforcement officer;
    (3) a common carrier of persons for hire whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
    (4) a public service or utility company whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
    (5) a person who has written permission from the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency to possess a police radio;
    (6) a person who holds an amateur radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission if the person is not transmitting over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes;
    (7) a person who uses a police radio only in the person's dwelling or place of business;
    (8) a person:
    (A) who is regularly engaged in newsgathering activities;
    (B) who is employed by a newspaper qualified to receive legal advertisements under IC 5-3-1, a wire service, or a licensed commercial or public radio or television station; and
    (C) whose name is furnished by his employer to the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency in the county

    in which the employer's principal office is located;
    (9) a person engaged in the business of manufacturing or selling police radios; or
    (10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.
    (c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
    (1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
    (2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.
    The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.
    As added by Acts 1977, P.L.342, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.162-1994, SEC.1.