Rand Paul - 'Justice for Breonna Taylor Act' to bar no-knock warrants

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Bren, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    62,459
    Likes Received:
    57,581
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Not here for the political aspect, just the police/law/irony aspect. Was this even a "no-knock" case? I have posted the same question to Facebook articles from the local paper, Fox News, etc., but no answers.

    Rand Paul has introduced a bill to ban no-knock search warrants - it apparently will only affect federal law enforcement:

    Rand Paul announces 'Justice for Breonna Taylor Act' barring no-knock warrants

    Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., introduced a bill Thursday to end "no-knock" warrants like the one that led to the shooting death of an African-American woman earlier this year.

    The Justice for Breonna Taylor Act would prohibit federal law enforcement from forcibly entering a home without announcing their purpose for executing the warrant and their authority. The measure is named after Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old EMT who was fatally shot by Louisville officers on March 13 after they used a battering ram to enter her home.


    Here's the problem...I don't think there was a no-knock search warrant in the Breonna Taylor case + the police say they did knock and announce. Is this going to be a major legal change based on a completely false premise?

    Granted, the Breonna Taylor warrant is poorly written, I have been using Jefferson County search warrants as the sole "wrong" examples in search & seizure classes for about 17 years (but I do like the use of pictures). BUT the question nobody seems to answer is, was there even a "no-knock" warrant in the Breonna Taylor case? The detective asked for one, but I don't see where the judge granted it in the actual search warrant:

    Search Warrant here

    Note: the scanned warrant is scrambled - Pages 1-3 are a Kentucky search warrant, Pages 4,5,6 and 8 are the affidavit and page 7 is page 2 of the search warrant mixed in with the affidavit and repeated, while pages 5 and 6 should be in reverse order - probably done by the reporter who scanned it. So the 8 pages should be: Warrant - pages 1, 2, and 3. Affidavit - Page 4, 6, 5, 8 (delete page 7).
     
  2. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    5,424
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Many years ago I was told this joke. What’s a Mississippi Search Warrant? It’s when you have two Mississippi State Troopers at a house, one at the front door, one at the back. The Trooper at the front door knocks real hard, and the Trooper at the back door yells, “Ya ’all come on in now!”

    OK, enough nonsense. No-knock warrants can be problematic. I don’t have the time to get into it here, but at minimum, save exigent circumstances, it’s always best to have one or more uniformed officers present when doing an entry. Consider this, how the heck do you know if someone is actually a police officer if they’re dressed in jeans, toting an M-4, and holding out a shiny piece of metal?
     
    jame, BigBull 301, M7425 and 8 others like this.

  3. ReaPer105

    ReaPer105

    Messages:
    6,325
    Likes Received:
    12,525
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    They hopefully have body cam footage to show what they did. No valid excuse not to these days. I’ve had SWAT guys say they give away tactics. BS. Turn em on at entry and they will save more headaches than they cause
    Didn’t Miss Innocent shoot or shoot at police first?
     
  4. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    62,459
    Likes Received:
    57,581
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    My question is, why are we claiming Breonna Taylor was killed due to a no-knock search warrant, when the warrant doesn't authorize a no-knock entry and the police say they did knock and announce?
     
    R.B. Riddick and Sam Spade like this.
  5. Schrag4

    Schrag4

    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    I believe her boyfriend shot at them, and she was shot and killed. I also believe he claims they essentially were woken up by the sound of their door being broken into, and didn’t hear anything about police or a warrant. That doesn’t sound unrealistic - if I’m in a deep sleep and someone shouts something then starts kicking in my door, all I will consciously hear is the door being kicked in.
     
    Macc283 likes this.
  6. ZGXtreme

    ZGXtreme

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    53
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Location:
    Okla
    From what I can gather; two simultaneous warrants, one no knock the other a knock and announce.

    The knock and announce was at EX EMT Taylor’s house. The no knock was at the Trap House she’d been observed repeatedly at.

    Apparently it was believed five armed male suspects were at the Trap House and thus the no knock. It worked. Surprised and all in custody without a shot fired.

    Taylor’s house... BF stated he heard an announcement. He fired and she was killed as they returned fire.

    Sounds like a hazard of poor life choices to me and a bill which has nothing to stand in if citing this case.
     
  7. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    23,176
    Likes Received:
    15,561
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    The issue is most likely the general mistaken belief that when you knock and announce the cops then have to wait until someone comes and opens the door.

    Many think that if the cops knock and announce and then force entry it is then a "no knock" warrant.
     
    pgg00 and ranger1968 like this.
  8. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    5,424
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    The whole warrant execution thing is a can of worms, mainly because how it may be done in one part of the nation, in perhaps a rural part of a state, and how such a warrant may be executed in some other jurisdiction, can vary so much.

    As law enforcement today you really have to do a "what do I gain, what do I lose" calculation when performing most of what would have been routine police functions not too long ago.

    The purpose of the "no-knock" is multifaceted; perhaps the officers have reason to believe (probable cause) that the person/s inside are armed and a potential threat. Perhaps there's a concern that evidence will be destroyed if entry isn't gained quickly.

    Sound tactics can go a long way in the police officers prevailing in such situations. If you think the occupants are armed in a residence, and failing any exigent set of circumstances, take them into custody outside their "crib" and then escort them back to the residence to conduct your lawful search.

    If the fear is solely the destruction of evidence, I must admit to being a bit confused here. Just how much controlled substance can one flush down a toilet? Half a kilo? A kilo? I'm a bit dubious with this argument when you start talking about loss of a kilo of product.

    If the quantities of controlled substance are measured in ounces, then doing the whole warrant thing, armed to the teeth with M4s, well, that's a bit over the top.

    And, in any case, I respectfully suggest that any warrant to enter a premises or building, save for exigent circumstances, should be accompanied by uniformed personnel.

    Oh, and one last annoying thought; might I please see your written out "tac" plan prior to hitting the place? You know, the one where the duties of all involved officers are laid out, there's a hand drawn map of the location, and whatever other relevant intel was obtained is contained in the plan for all parties involved to read and understand.

    Just a thought.
     
    pgg00, Wayward Son, Deltic and 2 others like this.
  9. 686 AR15 G17Fan

    686 AR15 G17Fan

    Messages:
    3,158
    Likes Received:
    7,492
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Wasn't that one of the cited failings of the whole David Koresh fiasco ? That they could have taken him into custody when he went into town instead of reenacting D-day ?
     
    K. Foster, hannstv, Lt. Donn and 3 others like this.
  10. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes Received:
    7,253
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2000
    Location:
    High up in the rockies
    Never thought I'd see Rand Paul seduced by the Dark Side.:(
     
  11. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    5,424
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    I believe so.
     
  12. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    26,464
    Likes Received:
    28,792
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    To borrow a popular turn of phrase from politics at the moment ...

    Because "truth over facts"??

    Dunno.

    Certain quarters have been complaining about No-Knock search warrants for a long time. Maybe this is just seen as a good opportunity to conflate the desire to eliminate them with a current incident, even if it doesn't match up with what they're trying to do (and have been wanting to do)?
     
  13. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    5,424
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    I'm not sure what law has been passed, so I'm at a disadvantage here. Permit me to at least state that most laws restricting law enforcement can be traced to a handful of enforcers doing things that shocked someones conscience!

    You ever read up on how the Miranda Rule came into being? Didn't happen 'cause one day the Supreme Court got testy and decided to screw the coppers. The history of that decision goes back to documented cases of torture, from the 1930s, conducted in rural parts of the south against African American suspects of assorted crimes, who were unable to tolerate the pain of the "interview" and signed (often with an "X") confessions to crimes they may, or may not have, committed.

    Just sayin'...
     
    Kentak, Chui, Wayward Son and 2 others like this.
  14. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    62,459
    Likes Received:
    57,581
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    That's the only explanation that would make sense, but even LMPD officers seem to be unaware of the content of the warrant.
     
    Dragoon44 likes this.
  15. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    62,459
    Likes Received:
    57,581
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Not unexpected from Rand Paul. He's a libertarian and this is exactly the position I'd expect him to take. I don't even necessarily disagree with him, but then I'd agree with rolling back all drug laws and making it a free for all.
     
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    62,459
    Likes Received:
    57,581
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Yes, but the Breonna Taylor warrant was to search the apartment and her car for drugs - not to search for or arrest a person.
     
  17. jk_226

    jk_226

    Messages:
    1,075
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    If done correctly, a "knock and announce" is done by knocking and announcing "police" and giving a reasonable amount of time for the resident to answer.

    Shouting "police" and then kicking the door in is essentially a no knock.
     
    Schrag4, cbetts1 and 686 AR15 G17Fan like this.
  18. jk_226

    jk_226

    Messages:
    1,075
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    If it wasn't truly a no-knock warrant, I'm surprised. Even in my liberal bastion, due to the easy destruction of evidence drug dealing search warrants are usually no-knock.
     
  19. 686 AR15 G17Fan

    686 AR15 G17Fan

    Messages:
    3,158
    Likes Received:
    7,492
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Isn't that kind of splitting hairs ?

    The way you describe it, it implies if they found drugs they would have simply left without arresting anyone. Or, if nobody was home they would have done the search, and if drugs were found they wouldn't have looked for and made an arrest ? Could she leave the premises while they were searching, since, as you say, they weren't looking for a person ?

    I understand that if no drugs were found they wouldn't arrest anyone, just seems like a distinction without much of a difference as they are clearly targeting a particular person.
     
  20. ranger1968

    ranger1968

    Messages:
    12,443
    Likes Received:
    25,127
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Location:
    Wayyyyyy down South, shootin' stuff and Jeeping!
    This.

    Much like Qualified Immunity, No Knock search warrants are one of those things that alot of people who really don't understand what it is have a lot of wrong ideas about....
     
    Chui, Dukeboy01 and Dragoon44 like this.