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Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.
This thread will be dedicated to Ramshot powders.
I made a call to Ramshot regarding their True Blue powder. I was told that "as far as I can tell no one had ever tried that powder in 10mm". I told them that I would. I also gave them my Enforcer data that I had developed, just in case they were interested. Anyway, here it is: 10 shot avg, virgin Starline brass, CCI 350 primers, 1.26 OAL.
10.8 TB 135 Nosler - 1301fps
11.5 TB 135 Nosler - 1393fps
10.0 TB 155GDHP - 1204fps
10.8 TB 155GDHP - 1284fps
9.3 TB 165 Sierra - 1149fps
10.0 TB 165 Sierra - 1216fps
8.7 TB 180XTP - 1048fps
9.3 TB 180XTP - 1091fps
8.1 TB 200XTP - 1014fps
8.7 TB 200XTP - 1070fps
7.0 TB 220 West Coast FP - 869fps
7.5 TB 220 West Coast FP - 925fps
10.8 TB 135 Nosler - 1488fps
11.5 TB 135 Nosler - 1542fps
10.0 TB 155 GDHP - 1325fps
10.8 TB 155 GDHP - 1432fps
9.3 TB 165 Sierra - 1268fps
10.0 TB 165 Sierra - 1380fps
8.7 TB 180XTP - 1145fps
9.3 TB 180XTP - 1235fps
8.1 TB 200XTP - 1109fps
8.7 TB 200XTP - 1182fps
7.0 TB 220 West Coast FP - 982fps
7.5 TB 220 West Coast FP - 1042fps
I think that this is the tip of the iceburg for this powder. I know that these velocities are not head-snappers, but these were very conservative "starter loads". This powder meters perfect and exhibits less pressure in than 180 UMC in all loadings shown! I will follow up with part two in a few days!
G29 10.8gr 800X 180XTP - 1255fps
6"KKM 10.8gr 800X 180XTP - 1508fps
-PS. Do not expect to get 800X or Blue Dot velocities from this powder, but I think that this stuff will definitely turns some heads.
True Blue update:
75F 3000ft elev all loads use 1.26" OAL CCI 350 primers.
135 Nosler JHP 12.5gr TB - 1438fps
155 GDHP 11.5gr TB - 1324fps
165 Sierra JHP 10.8gr TB - 1246fps
180 XTP 10.0gr TB - 1155fps
200 XTP 9.3gr TB - 1130fps
220 Precision FP 8.1gr TB - 1017fps
None of these loads exhibited signs of overpressure. I am very satisfied with the way that this powder meters, and performs. I will post my 6"KKM data shortly!
Same shooting session as before:
220 Precision FP 8.1gr TB - 1115fps
200 XTP 9.3gr TB = 1242fps
180 XTP 10.0gr TB - 1281fps
165 Sierra JHP 10.8gr TB - 1389fps
155 GDHP 11.5gr TB - 1477fps
135 Nosler JHP 12.5gr TB - 1566fps
There is still some room to grow comfortably!
Again, same shooting session as before, but with bone stock G20:
135 Nosler JHP 12.5gr TB - 1467fps
155 GDHP 11.5gr TB - 1355fps
165 Sierra JHP 10.8gr TB - 1312fps
180 XTP 10.0gr TB - 1235fps
200 XTP 9.3gr TB - 1191fps
220 Precision FP 8.1gr TB - 1052fps
15.0gr Enforcer 180FP - 1324fps
15.0gr Enforcer 180FP - 1148fps
15.0gr Enforcer 180FP - 1160fps
220gr WC= West Coast 220, PB= Precision Bullet 220
All loads use CCI 350 primers and 1.26" OAL
10.5gr Enforcer PB220 - 1068fps 6"KKM 70F
11.5gr Enforcer PB220 - 1140fps 6"KKM 70F
7.0gr True Blue WC220 - 982fps 6"KKM 85F
7.0gr True Blue WC220 - 869fps G29 85F
7.5gr True Blue WC220 - 1042fps 6"KKM 85F
7.5gr True Blue WC220 - 925fps G29 85F
8.1gr True Blue PB220 - 1017fps G29 75F
8.1gr True Blue PB220 - 1052fps G20 75F
8.1gr True Blue PB220 - 1115fps 6"KKM 75F
I sent RamShot and e-mail about load their powder in the 10mm, they said to use max 40 load data to start and work up slowly. The data below was shot with a Colt Delta in 20 round strings.
Winchester cases, Federal 155 Large Pistol Mag, OAL 1.25, TNT plated 180 RN/FP.
Extreme spread: 35
Standard Deviation: 9.75
TNT 180gr plated Power Factor: 202
Extreme spread: 30
Standard Deviation: 9.41
TNT 180gr plated Power Factor: 208
Extreme spread: 67
Standard Deviation: 16.18
TNT 180gr plated Power Factor: 217
Extreme spread: 41
Standard Deviation: 11.33
TNT 180gr plated Power Factor: 223
Extreme spread: 47
Standard Deviation: 11.13
TNT 180gr plated Power Factor: 229
True Blue should load the same as HS-6 and W-540.Enforcer should load same as AA#9.Silhouette is same the same as Winchester Action Pistol WAP.
Ramshot has their load guide back online http://ramshot.com/powders/
Does anyone know where I can by Ramshot powder? I e-mailed them two weeks and never received a reply. I live in West Michigan and I suspect I'll have to pay the haz-mat fee, but I think enough of my friends will want some to make a bulk order workable.
Graf's web page sucks, but they have it.
How much muzzle flash do true blue and enforcer have?
Haven't tried it in the 10mm, but my dad has tried the afermentioned Ramshot powders in the .45 ACP and they shoot very clean with little flash. Often times, the brass are still shiney inside after being fired.
Ramshot powders are also supposed to be temperature insensitive and we have found they meter consistantly from our Dillon 550 series progressive press. In fact, my dad and I find ourselves turning more and more to Ramshot powders whenever possible.
Ramshot's ZIP and TRUE BLUE shot very clean!
I use the ZIP in my 9mm and .380 loads.
TRUE BLUE goes in my 40 S&W and 41 Magnum loads. I didn't think anything would turn me away from BLUEDOT for these calibers, but TB is cheaper and cleaner.
Here's the current data from Ramshot's website. This is their reloading guide #4.1 (2006).
Primer: Winchester Large Pistol
OAL: 1.260" (regardless of different bullets, they're all this length)
Bullet Powder Start Max Velocity Pressure
Lyman 200gr LTC Silhouette 5.8grs 6.7grs 1000 fps 34,250 psi
Hornady 200gr XTP Silhouette 6.9grs 7.8grs 1025 fps 35,700 psi
Sierra 190gr FPJ Silhouette 7.4grs 8.3grs 1185 fps 34,700 psi
Sierra 180gr JHC Silhouette 7.5grs 8.4grs 1210 fps 34,400 psi
Lyman 170gr LSWC Silhouette 7.4grs 8.2grs 1220 fps 34,100 psi
Winchester 170gr JHP Silhouette 7.9grs 9.1grs 1285 fps 34,600 psi
Hornady 155gr XTP Silhouette 8.8grs 9.7grs 1355 fps 35,400 psi
Sierra 150gr JHC Silhouette 8.7grs 9.8grs 1395 fps 35,500 psi
Note that the only powder listed by Ramshot is still Silhouette. Not much in the way of load development there. You'd think Ramshot would realize that True Blue and Enforcer would accomplish a lot more than Silhouette in the 10mm...
I wanted some additional information from Ramshot regarding Enforcer and True Blue because they don't have any official data published. McNett seems to be getting pretty good velocities from his enforcer load. Anyway, I sent an email and Ramshot responded promptly.
From Ramshot via email:
Since Enforcer is way too slow burning for the 10mm Auto it will require a severe compression with a loading density of 120%+ and we do not publish loads that compressed for general use.
Since there is no danger of causing over pressure you can certainly experiment with any level of compression that you are willing to do with that combination.
For True Blue we suggest as follows.
Caliber: 10mm Auto.
Barrel length: 5”
Powder: Ramshot – TRUEBLUE
Bullet weight: 155 grains.
Start load: 9.0 grains (1200 – 1300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 10.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 7.5 grains (1050 – 1150 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 8.6 grains (1150 – 1250 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 7.1 grains (980 - 1025 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 7.9 grains (1050 – 1150 Ft/p/sec).
This is good info guys, as I'm getting a progressive press to load off my 10mm addicaiton.
I didnt get great velocity with Ramshot Silhoutte, but worked up some nice range loads;
G20 LW ported barrel,180gr FMJ, 1.252" COAL, Winchester Large non-magnum primers
Ramshot Silhoutte 8.0gr
No malfunctions at all, all cases looked great, and gun cycles fine without any issues with 22lb spring.
This is my current working up load in my 10mm...I`ll be back with some velocity data soon...