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Question for MP's

Discussion in 'US Army Forum' started by Hazzmatt, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. Hazzmatt

    Hazzmatt "what it says"

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    My kid just graduated basic and AIT (?) at Ft. Leonard Wood as an MP and told me that they were told that they could only carry their pistol with an empty chamber. My question is..was this just for the training phase or does the military require MP's to operate that way when on duty?
     
  2. Biscuitsjam

    Biscuitsjam

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    I don't know about MPs specifically...

    However, I will say that when we were in Iraq, in a really nasty sector with daily attacks, some leader-type put out that policy for us. Weapon status "green" (weapon unloaded) inside the wire and weapon status "amber" (mag inserted, chamber empty) outside the wire. The policy wasn't enforced, however, and most of my base was "red" (weapon loaded) 24/7 until we changed bases 6 months later.

    I think a similar official policy of weapon-status "amber" is true for MOST soldiers even when enemy contact is likely. Actual practice is going to depend on the unit, but I would NOT be surprised if that policy applied to most MPs.
     

  3. AF-Odin

    AF-Odin

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    From what I have seen, most Army MPs stateside carry with a full mag and empty chamber. This is the same way they used to carry the .45. The USAF Security Forces I have associated with carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer dropped using the decocking lever--assumption is that a DA pistol with a round in the chamber and hammer down is the same as the old USAF revolver with six in the cylinder and the hammer down. Like Bisquitsjam says, a lot of variance in theater depending on FOB and unit
     
  4. Biscuitsjam

    Biscuitsjam

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    The safety on the M9 is pretty pathetic, so maybe it is a good idea to carry with an empty chamber... I tried several different holsters, and mine would always switch to "fire" at least once a day. After a while, I started checking the thing every five minutes or so...
     
  5. USDB2FCI

    USDB2FCI

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    Yes stateside no round in the chamber per SOP. At the post I was at(stateside) most MP's had 1 in the chamber. It was one of those rules that was not enforced or talked about.
     
  6. cknx77

    cknx77

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    I'm an MP and carry status depends on unit and mission. There are MPs in Combat Support units, Law and Order units, MPs tasked to do Protective Service Details, etc. and they are all very different missions with different SOPs. Some are issued M11s for certain missions but mostly the M9 is the standard. If it were up to me the M9 Beretta would be retired for the M11 SIG (P228)! But then again the M4 would make a good boat anchor and I'd replace the M4 with the HK 416 or XM8 rifle...........
     
  7. chance3290

    chance3290 Fear Dli

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    During my second tour of Europe (90-93) MPs couldn't even carry a magazine in the weapon. Made me sick, but at least that way, when your weapon was taken from you, they didn't have the means to shoot you...unless they brought their own gun.:steamed:
     
  8. tc556guy

    tc556guy

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    There is no way that firing pin is going to drop forward onto the primer for a chambered round on a decocked M9.
     
  9. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    As said, USAF Security Forces (I am one) carry round in the chamber, safety off. Army apparently does not (and when we are around Army troops, this apparently causes some heartburn for SNCOs and officers, and some of OUR SNCOs and officers have apparently had some heated words with Army people trying to tell our guys "you can't do that" downrange.

    One of our senior NCOs (now moved on) told us in guardmount one day for the benefit of the new guys that USAF SF troops are the only people "as a group" meaning with no exceptions, that carry a live round in the chamber safety off in the entire US military (excepting special agents like OSI/CID etc) with handguns. Doesn't matter if you're an E-2 right out of tech school, they trust you not to accidentally blow yourself or someone else away. It does happen (idiot when I was deployed did what he wasn't supposed to do, played around with his M9 and shot himself in the knee) but by and large it's an accident-free way of conducting business, and it's nice to know your 9 is always ready to rock right out of the holster with no other BS.

    We did find it hard to believe Army MPs carry empty chamber, since the entire reasoning behind adopting the DA M9 was "we can carry it loaded and ready to go, safety off".
     
  10. chance3290

    chance3290 Fear Dli

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    I helped bring the M9 on line for the MP Corps at McClellan, and I taught it in both the classrooms and Ranges 19 & 13. The M9 is a very safe weapon with a round in the chamber.
    Murphy, I had one of those encounters as an E-6 in Germany. I took a squad to an AF base for a couple of weeks of PSD. When he found out we didn't carry ammo in the weapon, the AF E-2 escort said: "Ya'll don't carry ammo?" "They let us keep one in the chamber."
    Knowing the M9, I knew that was perfectly safe. I wasn't pissed at the E-2 or the AF, I was pissed at my Army and MP Corps for having such a stupid reg.
    But the Army in Europe has a history of such rules and regs. During my first tour a drunken GI fell off an overpass on his way back to the barracks. So after that, that had to be an E-6 or higher posted at both ends to make sure the drunks didn't fall off. BTW the only way to fall off was to first climb up the safety fence.
     
  11. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Yeah, the AF does do some seriously stupid stuff, but with the M9, and general pistol training (what little we get) someone was paying attention. They make SURE you know in M9 classes it has a heavy DA trigger, manual safety, firing pin block, etc. i.e if this gun goes off, it's because you made it do it.

    I've got 20+ years of shooting experience, and I own a 92FS as a training weapon (before I came in) so I have no trouble with it, but a few people do (other than the small-hands, big gun thing).
     
  12. deadday

    deadday

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    Sounds like Army Europe and USFK are on the same page....At least there's not curfew in Germany...



    drew
     
  13. AF-Odin

    AF-Odin

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    Before I retired, we used to drive the Army range safety guys crazy doing the AF course of fire for our semi-annual quals. The draw and fire then re-holster sent the Army into orbit, but luckily we had an MOA that stated as long as we had OUR CATM guy on the range as the RSO, we could abide by AF vice Army rules. When we had to fire the Army course of fire, it may have been pop-up targets, but all firing started from depressed pistol stance and returned to depressed pistol stance and no mag changes during a stage, only between stages.
     
  14. taco101

    taco101 Son o the hound

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    I was an MP prior to the M9. I carried a 1911 and the SOP was 5 rounds in the mag and the chamber empty. I had a great platoon Sgt. (thanks papa smurf) that ordered us to carry a full mag and loaded chamber. We all carried hot. And no one narced out the boss. We just loaded up away from guardmount.
     
  15. deadday

    deadday

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    Why only 5 rounds? Do you know?



    drew
     
  16. taco101

    taco101 Son o the hound

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    SOP was all mags get downloaded by two rounds. In the M-16 it did increase reliability.(my current m-4 mags all have 28 rounds)

    Lots of stuff in the military is done...because. That is the only reason to download a 1911 mag.
     
  17. chance3290

    chance3290 Fear Dli

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    I remember the five rounds. We were suppose to go empty chamber with 5, when I first started in the 82nd MP co in 77. We had good Viet Nam vets as squad leader/platoon sergeants and they looked the other way when we added 2 (or three :whistling:)
    Then came my first trip to Germany with the 503rd MP Co (3RD AD)84-87. I was now the vet Squad Leader in an outlining platoon, who told the kids to upload.
    I swear this next part is true. In the main company in Frankfurt (Drake Kaserne), going on duty went like this: You drew your 1911, two empty mags and 10 loose rounds from the arms room and went directly to the clearing barrel where your sergeant was waiting. You racked your slide three times, kept the slide forward and holstered. You then loaded 5 into a mag whilst calling out 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 to your sergeant. That mag went into the pouch. You repeated with the other mag and put that one in the pistol. At the end of shift you repeated this. IN OTHER WORDS, you NEVER had a LOADED PISTOL IN YOUR HAND.
     
  18. chance3290

    chance3290 Fear Dli

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    I also remember one day when a crazed GI came to Drake Kaserne, beat his 1SG and disarmed THREE MPs from my unit. Not one even tried to draw on this nut. The Polizei later shot the guy.
    I remember when our Provost Marshal flipped out because no one did anything to stop the guy. He asked one of my guys if he would have drawn on the man. My Private proudly declared: "No Sir, I know better than to draw a loaded weapon." The PM flipped out on my guy and I couldn't hold back. I explained to the Colonel about how every MP is trained to never hold a loaded pistol in his hand...etc, and other career ended chit-chat. Fortunately for me, that PM retired soon afterward. But the policy didn't change.
     
  19. bagballa

    bagballa Tow Member

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    Bad safety..? Is the trigger finger sold separately? Some holsters for the 92 are designed to deactivate safety when drawn. The one I had in iraq was made that way but It wouldnt always disengage the safety. If you ever had to use one in combat its pretty much SHTF, and no help.

    MP's do carry on duty Red or Amber depending on what their doing.
    M4's usually amber.
     
  20. chance3290

    chance3290 Fear Dli

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    I never had a problem with the safety on the M9. I used it to decock...that was it. I never carried it with the safety on. In a war zone....ooops, sorry, hostile fire zone, the M9 was carried with the round chambered and the safety off. This was regardless of what you were told by the poges.