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I never realized how often I was touching my face, now the whole CHINA VIRUS thing has taught me one positive thing....I no longer touch my face until after I have thoroughly washed my hands.
As for mask wearing, maybe b/s but as long as they are "required" I'll wear it in stores etc.
 

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I never realized how often I was touching my face, now the whole CHINA VIRUS thing has taught me one positive thing....I no longer touch my face until after I have thoroughly washed my hands.
As for mask wearing, maybe b/s but as long as they are "required" I'll wear it in stores etc.
I can understand that position, doing the same here, need bread , milk, etc groceries, lol
Just remember the multiple hands that touched what you're buying.
 

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What about that “cloud” getting in your eyes? Ever rub your eyes? I’m been saying this from day one, real effective infection control is nearly impossible for the average citizen. It is very difficult for hospitals to pull off and there are frequent slips.
This is likely how I became infected in spite of wearing a P100. There were several times when I would forget to wash my hands and/or use hand sanitizer.
 

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It won’t
The vaccines target a “conserved” area of the viral genome. As long as this remains stable, the vaccine should work. Should this area change, the vaccine will likely become ineffective.

Virological.org. has been posting the new strains as they arise. Unfortunately, that list is growing.
 

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We have always had patients that were in "isolation". Trying to keep them isolated is very difficult unless it is some kind of STRICT isolation. Think virus lab. Hazmat suits etc. I have always thought that it was impossible to ensure complete insulation from whatever the pt had. Not talking about COVID but other things it always seemed that no matter how careful we were the patient across the hall or a door or two would "get" the same thing. I comply because it's my job, but I have always wondered how much good it really did. I joke at work that I have probably had everything we isolate people from in my nose for years. Colonized in my nose and me now, immune to most of it. Of course, before COVID we weren't required to wear N95 masks usually. Now, of course, we are.
The isolation they do in a COVID unit is much stricter and a lot better than 'standard' isolation but Nurses and Doctors still come down with it.
That said, where do I stand on this?
I think it's better than doing nothing. Everything Nursetim has said. It may or may not keep you from getting it, but IT JUST MIGHT. Not getting "it" just might keep you from DYING like some of the patients we have had that did.

In my opinion, we can't say COVID killed them. What killed them was the terrible Pneumonia and the ARDS that developed BECAUSE they had COVID. We are taking care of a lot of patients that are post COVID. Most are doing ok but taking a long time to recover. A few were torn all to pieces. A couple of those had NO REAL COMORBIDITES! I don't know if it is some kind of combination of genes that seems to make some of them get ARDS or not. ARDS has been killing people for years. Long before COVID. It is BAD NEWS BEARS.

One big downside to me is I can't see the pretty nurses faces anymore, and they can't tell how good looking I am.
Hell some of them I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEIR FACES. Don't know if they are pretty or not. I just try to imagine they are.
Although I’m retired from the Medical field, I still maintain contact with people that are dealing with this virus. Trying to protect yourself from this virus is extremely difficult. The best you can hope for is reducing the viral load upon initial infection.

One of the COVID nurses I talk to has seen patients with no known underlying health conditions that were seriously ill.

One thing I find a bit alarming is the type of PPE being used by staff that has direct patient contact. A fair number wear a face shield with just a surgical mask. The minimum should be an N95. A P100 is definitely preferable.
 

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Good detail info,
I've heard the virus is small enough as the air we breathe.
And a particulate mask is insufficient, as we can breathe through our masks.
My own opinion is , we are not really protected as the virus can be on your clothes, hair, shoes, especially our hands as we touch things.
In the construction industries dealing with asbestos, silica, nuclear, epoxies , lead abatements ( removal ) we didn't just wear a mask , we fully suited up. Tyvek , booties, gloves, full face, sometimes half face respirator masks, and filters much more effective then particulate filters, unless you were dealing with a straight up particulate like silica.

The science behind the virus being a particulate is flawed.
The virus itself will cling to a water droplet from a cough or sneeze.
But once a water droplet hits your clothing or facial mask, the whole composition of the virus changes, it's no longer a particulate.
Like a snow flake melting on your shoulders during a snow fall. It's a particle until it melts, then what is it ??

We would suit up, everything new , suit, gloves etc.
Upon leaving the contaminated area we would enter a decontamination area. Proper training was essential or you couldn't do the work.
During the decon process before you went home , you stripped the protection off and it was discarded with proper training for the disposal of contaminated work clothing.
I've personally caught the Corona Rhino virus ( common cold ) a couple of times already.
Statistics show over 200,000 people die annually from influenza, respiratory, colds annually.
In 2017, 2018 our annual death rate in the USA is almost 3 million people
Decontamination is a vital part of preventing yourself from becoming infected. It’s really a 2 person job.

It’s overkill for this virus, but if you have underlying health conditions and want to go out in public, it’s necessary to avoid becoming infected.
 

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404FF181-7AC5-430B-B8BE-7C3218A1263A.jpeg


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but vaccines will potentially make masking even more necessary for a short time. Kinda tickled that I called this point using logic alone, a little while back on GT. Now I heard scientists voice the same concern on the radio. You can rest assured that this is being hotly debated in the FDA as we speak. I promise, this problem is keeping public health officials up at night. Bottom line: Vaccines raise the possibility for even MORE asymptomatic spread.

Reading through phase II of Moderna and Phizer, their study defined a case as a positive PCR test AND AT LEAST ONE SYMPTOM. All we can can for sure about the ~95% effectiveness is that it keeps you from getting sick yourself (not having symptoms). A better study, from a public health standpoint, would have measured viral load of ALL participants 3x a week.

So here’s what we know about the dynamics of the situation:
1) Majority of CV spread is by asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carriers.
2) Contagiousness peaks 2 days before and 3 day’s after onset. Nobody is contagious at day 9.
3) Just like Flu vaccines, the COVID vaccines make it possible to catch a milder form of the illness.
4) A milder form of COVID could easily be symptom-free (as it is anyway for some people).

So now instead of having two days without symptoms to spread the virus, some subset of the Vaccinated population will get to be fully asymptomatic spreaders for, 5 days?

This is why, once it’s proven safe and effective, the at-risk folks get it first. Old people and those with underlying conditions. Trump administration put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this moonshot of vaccine development. I don’t believe it would have happened under any other administration. It will put an end to this pandemic, if folks take it.

We just need to avoid the ultimate bad scenario: Old boomers who don’t trust public health authorities take it at 30% rate. Young healthy people who probably would have been fine anyway take it at 70% rate. Same healthy people reenter normal life, maskless, and now the old boomers have more exposure than even before.

In short, it’s critically important that vaccine be allocated to the riskiest cohort first. The need for mask usage (whether you agree with it or not) will directly correlate to the percentage of people willing to get vaccinated. Once we reach herd immunity through vaccines, the masks can and will come off. That could be Spring 2021 or 2022, it’s really up to the American people.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
View attachment 876534

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but vaccines will potentially make masking even more necessary for a short time. Kinda tickled that I called this point using logic alone, a little while back on GT. Now I heard scientists voice the same concern on the radio. You can rest assured that this is being hotly debated in the FDA as we speak. I promise, this problem is keeping public health officials up at night. Bottom line: Vaccines raise the possibility for even MORE asymptomatic spread.

Reading through phase II of Moderna and Phizer, their study defined a case as a positive PCR test AND AT LEAST ONE SYMPTOM. All we can can for sure about the ~95% effectiveness is that it keeps you from getting sick yourself (not having symptoms). A better study, from a public health standpoint, would have measured viral load of ALL participants 3x a week.

So here’s what we know about the dynamics of the situation:
1) Majority of CV spread is by asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carriers.
2) Contagiousness peaks 2 days before and 3 day’s after onset. Nobody is contagious at day 9.
3) Just like Flu vaccines, the COVID vaccines make it possible to catch a milder form of the illness.
4) A milder form of COVID could easily be symptom-free (as it is anyway for some people).

So now instead of having two days without symptoms to spread the virus, some subset of the Vaccinated population will get to be fully asymptomatic spreaders for, 5 days?

This is why, once it’s proven safe and effective, the at-risk folks get it first. Old people and those with underlying conditions. Trump administration put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this moonshot of vaccine development. I don’t believe it would have happened under any other administration. It will put an end to this pandemic, if folks take it.

We just need to avoid the ultimate bad scenario: Old boomers who don’t trust public health authorities take it at 30% rate. Young healthy people who probably would have been fine anyway take it at 70% rate. Same healthy people reenter normal life, maskless, and now the old boomers have more exposure than even before.

In short, it’s critically important that vaccine be allocated to the riskiest cohort first. The need for mask usage (whether you agree with it or not) will directly correlate to the percentage of people willing to get vaccinated. Once we reach herd immunity through vaccines, the masks can and will come off. That could be Spring 2021 or 2022, it’s really up to the American people.
Thank you for explaining that a little better. I sure hope its not 2022. How well do you think bandanas, cloth masks, surgical masks, neck gaiters work against this virus?
 

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It's become more than political. I was playing at a golf course in SW Florida, and the policy there is for all the grounds staff to wear a mask OUTSIDE! Yes, if you're cutting the grass on the green at 6am, you need to have your mask on. Now I'm sure the powers that be realize this is completely worthless being outside in the fresh air. but it is done to appease the worry warts who won't patronize the golf course if they feel "unsafe".
 

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I’m done with them now.
 

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Thank you for explaining that a little better. I sure hope its not 2022. How well do you think bandanas, cloth masks, surgical masks, neck gaiters work against this virus?
They are a joke, next to useless. It will help with large droplets, but incompletely.
 

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....... Yes, if you're cutting the grass on the green at 6am, you need to have your mask on. Now I'm sure the powers that be realize this is completely worthless being outside in the fresh air. but it is done to appease the worry warts who won't patronize the golf course if they feel "unsafe".
I would wear a mask if I was outside cutting the grass, but not for CoVid but to keep from inhaling fine dirt and grass particles, and to cut back on allergens.

YMMV
 

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Nobody is contagious at day 9.
Quick, better go and tell all the dead healthcare workers who caught COVID from their patients that they are not really dead and can go back home.

Seriously, if no one is contagious at day 9, how do you explain the healthcare workers who catch the virus from patients who are more than 9 days into the illness?
 

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Sorry about your wifes friend. Hope she recovers fully. I tend to agree with everything you wrote after still recovering from Covid myself. Don't know how the **** I caught it! Wear the damn masks everywhere, even at drive up windows. Wipe everything down, sanitize everything that comes into the house that I can. Don't touch my face with soiled hands etc. Caught it anyhow. I think there's no doubt the Wuhan flu is hyper contagious. Masks probably do jack to prevent it, at least the type most people go around with.
Because it is airborne.
You can't wear a mask 24/7/365.
Besides, how many times have we been told that wearing a mask to fend off covid is like using a chain - link fence to fend off mosquitoes?
 

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Ok the video clips were fun. First two imo worthless. Third got it right. I might do it slightly different. (If I wore gloves)
I prefer soapy water, like stores that have wash area near entrance/ exit.
 

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I have a different question about the masks.
All of the venues where I do business require me to wear a mask. My average work day at the horse shows is 12 hours.
I have washable reusable masks and carry 3 of them with me to rotate.
In a situation like mine, at what point does the mask cease to be PPE and become a foldable Petri dish?
 

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That’s what I’m thinking as well. But if this is the case, then why are they being pushed so hard?
I honestly couldn’t tell you. They help by catching the larger globules of oral secretions, like for surgery, but like erecting a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes, when it comes to viruses.
 

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I have a different question about the masks.
All of the venues where I do business require me to wear a mask. My average work day at the horse shows is 12 hours.
I have washable reusable masks and carry 3 of them with me to rotate.
In a situation like mine, at what point does the mask cease to be PPE and become a foldable Petri dish?
After the first hour or so.
 
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