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I'm really only wondering for 45acp reasons. I've been carrying Hornady Critical Duty because the penetration in the FBI protocols. At the risk of sounding stupid I have a question. I know nothing about reloading myself so I buy all my ammo. Im in Ga. Everyone here says Gold Dots are superior it seems. My question talking strictly buying ammo are yall buying strictly Speer factory Gold Dots? Here in Ga our LEOS are supplied with Ga Arms Gold Dots. I price difference and access are my reasons for asking. Has anyone ever compared Ga Arms Gold Dots to Speer? They use the same weight and specs but should I be only carrying Speer but stockpile Ga Arms? I like the Critical Duty a lot but I want opinions. Sorry if this had been addressed. Im new.
 

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See I dont buy anything online and that handicaps me. I really just don't trust it and I REALLY like support for my local gunshops. But Speer is NEVER available anymore in stores here
 

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I respectfully borrow from an old post made by antsi, way back in 2008, on another site:

I would not shoot one and consider it a valid test of the other. Despite using the same bullet, there can be differences in the cartridge overall length, the primers used, and other loading-related issues that could perform differently in your gun. Just because it is the same bullet does not mean it is the same cartridge.
I think the points are still valid. Test enough of it in your own pistols to be sure you're comfortable with reliability.
 

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See I dont buy anything online and that handicaps me. I really just don't trust it and I REALLY like support for my local gunshops. But Speer is NEVER available anymore in stores here
1) I don't know what you distrust about buying online...

2) supporting your local gun stores is great, but...they tend to rape you on ammo cost and if they don't have what I want (10mm for me) then there is the trusty internet that delivers to my door..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
1) I don't know what you distrust about buying online...

2) supporting your local gun stores is great, but...they tend to rape you on ammo cost and if they don't have what I want (10mm for me) then there is the trusty internet that delivers to my door..
I've had my identity stolen. It's a .....My shops give me deals because Im loyal and would order for me. I just wanted to know if you all are Speer specific or Gold Dots in general. Ga Arms supplies so many LEOS and National Guard I was wondering. They have so many contracts it must be good but in the 45 G 21SF Im sticking with Critical Duty But in my G 17 Im thinking of going to Speer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Critical Duty in the45acp REALLY helps with barriers in my testing. And staying in FBI protocols
 

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Another vote for SGAmmo (or other) online vendor for carry ammo. Buy your plinking ammo locally if they can compete. Perhaps tell your LGS about the really great pricing for 50 round boxes typically available online? Some have used the same distributors for years and don't know their options.

I actually did that with a LGS owner. His normal "ammo vendor/distributor" apparently started making excuses why they couldn't match the pricing. All Bull Squeeze. That store now includes orders of SD ammo from online sources and while marked up a little, it still is a decent value if you don't want to take business away from them. They sell a ton of it. Many customers don't want to buy in bulk.

BTW, the Gold Dot is a bonded bullet and does extremely well through barriers. It also usually has better expansion than the Critical Duty. I'm not as picky in 45. Generally, I stick with HST or Gold Dot, however. In a service length barrel, the CD should do fine if that's what you prefer.
 

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See I dont buy anything online and that handicaps me. I really just don't trust it and I REALLY like support for my local gunshops. But Speer is NEVER available anymore in stores here
If you like Gold Dots you will need to get used to buying online. I suspect the profit margin on GD is to small for retain but ok for lower overhead on line stores, also could be the reason HST stuff is rare in retail but plentiful online.
 

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I buy Speer gold dots, federal HST, hornady critical defense and duty. I do buy GA Arms range ammo though.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
I buy Speer gold dots, federal HST, hornady critical defense and duty. I do buy GA Arms range ammo though.
Ice found one shop local with Speer but I dont like the service. My usual had bulk in everthing but Speer. Im going to text him tomorrow and see what he says about a order. But getting woke up by Police thinking Im someone else is not cool but they immediately figured it out and were VERY nice.. The problem is getting new everything lol. Phone calls from debt collection I never did buisness with. Im not a tech guy at all either. Im only here because accident and then loved it lol. Im a outdoorsman all the way.
 

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I haven't bothered to find premium defense ammo on local shelves for many years. I use ammoseek.com, find the best price (including shipping) and order online in bulk. This way you can easily get pretty much whatever you want, that you're very unlikely to find on a local shelf, at a great price. I like factory loaded Gold Dot and Ranger T, but tend toward Federal HST mostly these days.

Of course, you need to have a comfort zone buying online, which I have done extensively for over two decades. UPS is delivering something or other, which was ordered online, to my house about every other day.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Another vote for SGAmmo (or other) online vendor for carry ammo. Buy your plinking ammo locally if they can compete. Perhaps tell your LGS about the really great pricing for 50 round boxes typically available online? Some have used the same distributors for years and don't know their options.

I actually did that with a LGS owner. His normal "ammo vendor/distributor" apparently started making excuses why they couldn't match the pricing. All Bull Squeeze. That store now includes orders of SD ammo from online sources and while marked up a little, it still is a decent value if you don't want to take business away from them. They sell a ton of it. Many customers don't want to buy in bulk.

BTW, the Gold Dot is a bonded bullet and does extremely well through barriers. It also usually has better expansion than the Critical Duty. I'm not as picky in 45. Generally, I stick with HST or Gold Dot, however. In a service length barrel, the CD should do fine if that's what you prefer.
You spoke of the compared expansion and penetration. That's actually EXACTLY why I made this thread. I can't link it because I dont remember where I read it but it was not a Hornady site. Lately I've been thinking of penetration and the45acp that I love. Those two don't seem to mesh well but I read in the bigger slower cals such as 45 that Gold Dots often don't expand fully or penetrate fully especially through denim and such. This is where they said the Critical Duty out perform Gold Dots often in the45. Maybe Im putting too much stock in the review. I tend to over analyze. Im going to but some actual Speer Lawman and feed my21 through various barriers with both just for fun if no other reason. If anyone finds links about this I'd appreciate them. I know my 9mm will penetrate but I love the G 21SF. Thanks to everyone who responds. And reads this. I appreciate knowledge and you can never have too much.
 

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Not to try to lecture you on Internet purchasing, but losing your credit card number is much different than having your whole identity stolen. Hopefully, by providing your name, shipping address, and credit card number, the ammunition seller won't be able to steal your identity. If your credit card number is stolen, you cancel it and get a new one, usually free of charge. You will never replace the selection of ammunition available online, at your local gun store. You'd be lucky to find a few boxes of your choice of ammunition, every once in a while.
 
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Order once from sgammo and your fears of ordering ammo online with be vanquished.
 
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You spoke of the compared expansion and penetration. That's actually EXACTLY why I made this thread. I can't link it because I dont remember where I read it but it was not a Hornady site. Lately I've been thinking of penetration and the45acp that I love. Those two don't seem to mesh well but I read in the bigger slower cals such as 45 that Gold Dots often don't expand fully or penetrate fully especially through denim and such. This is where they said the Critical Duty out perform Gold Dots often in the45. Maybe Im putting too much stock in the review. I tend to over analyze. Im going to but some actual Speer Lawman and feed my21 through various barriers with both just for fun if no other reason. If anyone finds links about this I'd appreciate them. I know my 9mm will penetrate but I love the G 21SF. Thanks to everyone who responds. And reads this. I appreciate knowledge and you can never have too much.
JG... Remington Golden Saber 185 gr +P is an outstanding round for deep penetration and expansion in .45auto. Hornady 230 gr XTP +P and Federal 230 gr HST are excellent choices, as well.

There are very useful ballistic test comparisons, with anaylsis, done exceptionally well, including photographs, of many of the loads you are considering here:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
 

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JG... Remington Golden Saber 185 gr +P is an outstanding round for deep penetration and expansion in .45auto. Hornady 230 gr XTP +P and Federal 230 gr HST are excellent choices, as well.

There are very useful ballistic test comparisons, with anaylsis, done exceptionally well, including photographs, of many of the loads you are considering here:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Golden Saber 185+P have been OUTSTANDING in my tests and is the round I carry
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not to try to lecture you on Internet purchasing, but losing your credit card number is much different than having your whole identity stolen. Hopefully, by providing your name, shipping address, and credit card number, the ammunition seller won't be able to steal your identity. If your credit card number is stolen, you cancel it and get a new one, usually free of charge. You will never replace the selection of ammunition available online, at your local gun store. You'd be lucky to find a few boxes of your choice of ammunition, every once in a while.
I don't use credit cards. I don't trust giving my debt card info. I guess I could buy a prepayed card. I only spend cash. I've heard bad things about the prepayed cards like money taking longer to transfer so it causes problems. I dont know if that's true. My main gunsmith orders anything for me I ask. I was mostly wondering like I said if everyone was talking about Speer or the other Gold Dots. I have a lot of HST and the other big brand's listed here. Just not Speer. Years ago they were in every store here. It's odd.
 

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I don't blame you for not wanting to use a debit card, as your bank account can be drained before you can react and you would have to fight to replenish your funds.

Personally, I use Speer Gold Dots, manufactured (in shiny nickel cases) by Speer. If you try GA Arms and it provides the same reliability, accuracy, velocity, flash level, and cleanliness in your firearms, you can use it. I don't reload, but I remember people being able to purchase Gold Dot bullets for such purposes. That would allow you to tailor the round for your purposes, such as making sure you used low flash powder if it was likely you might have to shoot in low light conditions, and still save money.

I haven't purchased ammunition off the store shelves in years so I can't speak for the availability of Gold Dots, but if you are correct it is indeed strange.
 

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I don't blame you for not wanting to use a debit card, as your bank account can be drained before you can react and you would have to fight to replenish your funds.

Personally, I use Speer Gold Dots, manufactured (in shiny nickel cases) by Speer. If you try GA Arms and it provides the same reliability, accuracy, velocity, flash level, and cleanliness in your firearms, you can use it. I don't reload, but I remember people being able to purchase Gold Dot bullets for such purposes. That would allow you to tailor the round for your purposes, such as making sure you used low flash powder if it was likely you might have to shoot in low light conditions, and still save money.

I haven't purchased ammunition off the store shelves in years so I can't speak for the availability of Gold Dots, but if you are correct it is indeed strange.
That's the thing I dislike about Ga Arms Gold Dots. They use brass. I prefer nickel in my carry ammo. I just can't afford the initial cost of reloading equipment right now. I hope to at some point. There is another thread called Where are the Gold Dots. Others in different States are saying stores are not stocking them or if they do they dont replenish stock yet carry all the other major brands. Even Underwood and Blackhills. I keep a wide assortment because I pick up deals. My guy calls me when his store gets stuff and I pay employees price. Its just strange Speer used to be everywhere now it seems online only.
 
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