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PTR 91 range report

Discussion in 'MBR Club' started by 1811guy, Dec 27, 2006.

  1. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    Well, I finally got out to shoot the PTR91 FC (16" bbl., tactical handguard). The rifle had no problem being zeroed. Everything seemed to work fine, except the magazine seemed to fit rather loose. I was using new aluminum G3 mags manufactured by HK.

    The first 40 rounds fired was Lake City M80 ball. Both mags functioned fine. I then started to shoot the Pakistani surplus I purchased. The first mag ran without a problem. The second mag had a FTF at the 17th round. It looks like the bolt failed to pick up the back of the case. There was enough friction between the bolt and the top round to partially strip it and jam the round between the trunion and the bolt. I cleared the jam, threw the deformed case away, and fired the last to without a problem. The next three mags of Pakistani did the same thing, all on the 17th round. I then switched back to the LC and had two more mags FTF on the 17th round.

    When I got home to clean, I noticed the bolt was almost gummy with tar which I assume is from the Pakistani ammo since it is sealed with tar. I don't know if this had anything to do with the FTF or if it the magazines. I plan on heading out again and using LC and Winchester and avoiding the crappy ammo to see if it makes a difference.

    Other than the FTF, the PTR91 was reasonably accurate (3" at 100 yards). I wasn't impressed, but only because of the FTF. If I can get the stupid gun to run well, I don't think I will mind having the gun. Fortunately I brought my 1941 Springfield M1 Garand. I ran 200 rounds of Korean and LC M2 ball. The M1 never fails to please me. The 2 stage trigger is one of the best I have felt on any gun, and the gun will shoot 2 MOA all day long. It never fails to please me and makes any trip to the range worth it. Maybe I should just dump the PTR 91, and buy a crapload of ammo and clips for the M1.
     
  2. Drjones

    Drjones

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    I can't believe you are considering getting rid of a fine firearm like the PTR because you had a bunch of malfunctions with it because you shot ammo that you KNOW is crappy.

    So if someone gave you a Ferrari, would you piss in the gas tank and then return the thing when it won't run on your piss?

    ;)


    Clean the PTR, shoot decent ammo through it and THEN tell us what you think of it.
     

  3. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    I don't think your ideal of having the M1 as your MBR is bad at all. I looked at the PTRs, they seem very nice indeed but I would expect them to be able to digest that limited amount of "crappy" ammo without issue. I think one of the main requirments of a MBR is it's ability to "shoot what ya got" so in a SHTF sit you could make due.

    The M1 is a fine gun to fit that role. Mine MBR currently is a 60 year Lee Enfield, has never failed me yet at the range. Is it out of date?
    Yes but it was the rifle (along with the M1) that saved the free world from Hitler, I think it's good enough for me. Then again if you can get the PTR to run then that would be a great one also as a MBR. Give it a few more trys and if it does not imprve then sell it and use that money to stock up on the .30-06!
     
  4. Drjones

    Drjones

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    1) I don't think he fed any crap ammo to the M1, so we don't know how that thing runs with such awful ammo.

    2) Do what you want, but know that in today's world, anybody you fight will probably have at least a semi and likely a full-auto weapon.

    You're probably just handicapping yourself by using a bolt gun. Yeah, I know...it's the shooter, not the weapon, but there's no reason to not pick a nice semi over a bolt-action battle rifle.
     
  5. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    "1) I don't think he fed any crap ammo to the M1, so we don't know how that thing runs with such awful ammo."

    I would think that many many M1 today are shooting 40, 50 even 60 year old surplus ammo these days and if the M1 has a rep for anything its reliabity. The M1 is as proven as any rifle on the planet in this regard. My point with the "crappy" ammo is that the stuff will feed all day thru an AK or SKS, it should in a $1000+ gun as well.

    As far as the semi-auto vs bolt action debate goes it is a valid point you bring up. I still feel that the Enfield is a capable rifle in this regard. Might not be the best choice but I feel it would do the job I needed it too. I am sure the M1 I am getting in March will take its place when it arrives.
     
  6. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    Thanks for the replies. Like I said, I am heading out again with some decent ammo. I bought the gun used, but it is a recent model, in like new condition, and still covered under the company's warranty. When I took the rifle apart for cleaning before shooting it, I noticed the same sticky black crud on the bolt. I cleaned it off and didn't think twice about it. After cleaning it this time I inspected the barrel extension, it was absolutely filthy and full of tar. I am hoping this is the problem, but PTR91 said they will make things right and they do have a good reputation for standing behind their product. I like the gun, it is just a bit frustrating to drop $850 on a rifle and then have a hiccup like this one.

    I agree with the comment on a MBR being able to shoot the crappy ammo. Korean surplus is not exactly quality stuff though, in fact, it is crappy compared to the LC or Greek surplus (at least the two cases of Korean I bought gave me a nice supply of clips :supergrin: ). I think I am going to avoid anything that is tar sealed in the future simply because cleaning is a PITA. If society ever decays and crappy ammo is all that is available, then I will use crappy ammo. I don't mind paying a little extra for decent ammo though.

    IMO, the M1 is the finest battle rifle ever made. Mine was issued in WWII, was re-arsenaled and put back in service in the Korean war. I am amazed that a rifle that has seen service in two wars and is over 65 years old still functions flawlessly and shoots so accurately.
     
  7. billwade

    billwade

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    1811Guy2 Stay away from any Australian .308. It would not cycle me Hk91. It must not have a high enough chamber pressure to run a blow back action.
     
  8. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    Thanks for the info on the Australian ammo.

    I brought the rifle out to the range again squeaky clean and properly lubed. I ran new Winchester Nato and LC ammo through it. Still jamming on the 17th round. I tried cycling the 17th round slowly. It looks like my loose mag is the culprit. When the mag is seated, there is about a 1/8" gap between the stops on the magazine and the mag well. With the lower spring pressure on the 17th round, the bottom of the case sits about 1/16" below the feed lips. These two things create enough of a gap to allow the bolt to pass over the back of the case, but the bolt still makes contact with the side of the case, and drags it into the chamber and jams. I know that many military rifles are built with loose tolerances, but 3/16" in a firearm is way out of spec for even a cheap rifle, which my PTR91 is not.

    I then tried resting the rifle on the magazine so the weight of the rifle would fully seat the mag. The rifle went through 3 full mags without a malfunction. After doing this I remembered that the first 40 round I fired when zeroing the rifle I was resting the rifle on the mag in order to get a steady sight picture. On further inspection of the rifle, it looks like the mag catch is lower than it should be to allow it to be fully seated. I recently saw a new PTR91 at my local dealer and the mag fits very snug with no wobble like mine.

    I don't see how the manufacturer can remedy this without doing some machine work and welding on my receiver because the cutout for the mag catch appears to be done improperly. I am still sending it back and hoping they can fix the problem. If they do fix it, I plan on staying away from any tar sealed ammo anyway just because of how much of a mess it makes on the bolt. I also understand that it can foul the flutes in the chamber and start causing extraction issues. Had I known all of this, I would have just bought an FAL.
     
  9. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    Well, I sent my rifle off to PTR91. I only had to pay for shipping one way, they covered it on return. That ran me $20.00. That was one week ago. Just got the rifle back. They fixed the mag catch and cleaned the gun. The mags fit very tight now. It looks like new and I cannot even tell they did the repair. They even sent me a few extra mags. Gun shoots 100%. I was getting MOA groups at 100 yards (on a bench of course) with LC M80 ball.

    Great rifle, great customer service. These guys stand behind their product 100%.
     
  10. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Just a small correction the PTR and any other centerfire rifle weapon are not blowback operated. They are all some variaiton of a locked breach design. True blow backs are usually pistol caliber or rimfire.
    Pat
     
  11. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    The PTR is a roller locked delayed blowback. Friction from the rollers keeps the breach closed till pressures drop to safe levels, if I remember right.
     
  12. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Thats correct but its not a direct blow back like on subguns.
    Pat
     
  13. Arkroyal

    Arkroyal Sailing on.

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  14. Drjones

    Drjones

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    :thumbsup:

    Great, glad to hear it worked out for you!

    And of course:

    :needspics:
     
  15. SJC 3081

    SJC 3081

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    Pakistani ammo is known to cause issues with the G3 design. My Greek G3 runs fine with it but was warned by my dealer to expect issues.
     
  16. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    Thanks for the info on the Paki ammo. I sold what I had left to a friend who owns an FAL, he loves the stuff. I now have an assortment of the following:

    - LC .308 (1990's)
    - FN .308 (1980's)
    - IMI (1980's)
    - Winchester 7.62 NATO (2007)
    - British RG (1990's)

    All told, it is only about 2000 rounds, but it all runs in my gun. I am a bit squeamish about shooting it now. I realized that I have about $1,000 into .308 ammo. :crying:
     
  17. Rex G

    Rex G

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    A little late to reply, but thanks for the range report! Good to see PTR91 has good customer service. I have some unused credit at a local FFL, and have been considering a PTR91.
     
  18. pat701

    pat701

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    Love mine have over 5,000 rds mil-surplus only thru it never a malfunction.
     
  19. 1811guy

    1811guy Formerly1811guy2

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    I ended up selling the PTR91. I tried really hard to like it, but the ergonomics were just crappy for me. I applied the proceeds to this MA-TEN build:

    [​IMG]

    I didn't have to talk myself into liking this rifle, and its performance has been flawless.