Protesters vs. Cops Reality Check

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by TheDreadnought, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Something that's struck me as I've watched these protests is just how outnumbered and overmatched the cops are in most of these situations. The cops can effectively control a space if they set out to do so. But they aren't able to keep a general lid on things. Hence the calls for the national guard.

    (Some will say that its because they're being held back, and there's an element of that, but the reality is they are just outnumbered by a massive amount.)

    Then when you think that despite the side of these protests, they really represent only a tiny fraction, an almost insignificant portion of the population. It's a sobering thought about what could happen when a significant portion of the population decides they've had enough. When people are fed up with increasingly liberal government and increasingly oppressive laws and regulation, they're going to come out in droves. Not a fraction of 1% of the population. . . but 10%, 20%.

    Multiply the numbers on the streets by a factor of 100, arm them with baseball bats, knives, crowbars, and guns (plus that one stupid guy with a machete), along with a willingness to kill people who disagree with them, and you've got a glimpse at where we're headed. Law Enforcement won't even be a factor. We've seen their ability to intercede ends as soon as people stop respecting them.

    National guard and military, much the same boat. Not to mention the wholesale desertion you'll get when they are given standing orders to fire on American citizens. . . many of whom they will probably agree with.

    Its an ugly picture. Coming your way in 2040 - 2050.
     
  2. lineback911

    lineback911

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    Good luck actually finding people that want to be police in a few years. Even these days there isn’t much competition to get a cop job
     

  3. Gray Dood

    Gray Dood

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    What you say is accurate up to a point.

    We've seen massive restraint imo on the part of LEO in cities. Meaning that the police have not responded with even a fraction of the force at their disposal.

    No water cannons, no dogs, no massive CS barrage, followed by wading into the front ranks of protesters. All less than lethal responses, and not mentioning lethal responses. As a result there have been relatively few deaths of protesters, despite their use of lethal weapons (molotov, bricks, etc).

    I pray that this level of response is not required, but this can't continue or escalate. Tolerance is rapidly approaching inviting outright insurrection imo.
     
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  4. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    500 cops with bean bag 12 guage rounds or those large plastic cup rounds could have spared a lot of businesses. Dont know how many less than leathal setups a city has available.. I own 4 12 guage shotguns.. cant believe that some of the cops cant add to the city total.. I am older and beat up and I could keep several businesses safe. dropping of 5 cops per block in LA or NY or many of these cities could sure have helped cut back on looting and fires.. If rioters decide to attack in a large group I would have no problem with M16 rifles taking out the most dangerous attackers. We are at a point that we need to start getting these cities under control and stop screwing around.. Why have I seen zero water cannons pushing back aggressive thugs... Why do we allow our police and secret service folks to have fireworks and rocks and bottles thrown at them ??
     
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  5. 9XX19mm

    9XX19mm

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    Completely agree 100%.

    But what are they (or should I say all these Big "D" Governors, Mayors, and Police Chiefs) hoping to gain from all this waiting and restraint? Votes? Those votes gained, will be massively offset by those voters who own businesses, work in the burned/looted businesses, use public transportation, or who have had their daily lives disrupted by all this rioting/looting/burning.

    Something has to give soon... or there won't be much left to rebuild in some of these places. Or the business won't find it financially profitable to do so.
     
  6. Butch_Coolidge

    Butch_Coolidge

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    Bottom line is, law enforcement are controlled by politicians. What they are capable of doing, and what they can do are vastly different. And this has nothing to do with the few bad ones responsible for the recent killing. Factor in, that they are being filmed and tracked all day every day by the public and their supervisors. It’s very similar to prison guards being vastly outnumbered. It’s a no win situation. And the majority of morons protesting and throwing things at cops, would be the first ones to call them if their home was being compromised. It’s a **** job, and no one is going to be able to put 20 or more years in anymore. This has no more to do with the recent situation, than when a sports team wins or loses and criminals riot. It’s exciting for some naive people, and an opportunity to basically purge for others.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    The problem is, right now the cops are massively outnumbered by citizens throwing bottles and bricks. If they bring rifles and start shooting, the cops are going to find themselves massively out numbers by protesters armed with handguns and AKs.

    You really think these thugs aren't the same ones turning city streets into a war zone every week in Chicago. The police do not have a monopoly on deadly force in this country. If they escalate to that level, they will not like the result.

    It's one thing to knock over a crack den when you've got 30 armed cops with surprise vs. 5 armed drug dealers.

    It's a whole different thing when you've got 500 armed cops in the street, against 2,000 armed felons who are pissed off and looking to kill cops, while hiding in a crowd of 8,000 civilians.

    The LAST thing the cops need to do is escalate to deadly force on a broad scale. If that happens, these riots will seem like candyland in comparison.
     
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  8. illrooster132

    illrooster132

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    If these people are to be considered domestic terrorist then the rules will change in favor of the cops. I say if you're honestly protesting for whatever reason you feel entitled , then do so in peace . if you break the law be ready to pay the consequences . whatever that will be.
     
  9. inthefrey

    inthefrey Moved on...

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    I agree. However, If I'm a cop, I am being sent to slaughter or sacrificed for the greater good? May as well line up all the cops in your district and summarily execute them for THE ORIGINAL SIN of being a police officer. Completely agree that DEADLY force is not the answer here. However, I do not know what else. Maybe this? I mean, it's 2020!~

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuyLIrSjxI
     
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  10. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Completely agree, expecting our cops to risk not just the possibility of serious injury or death, but the likelihood of it is unacceptable.

    I don't think we need that kind of area denial weapon yet. . . but we might soon if things escalate rather than taper off.
     
  11. PennsWoods

    PennsWoods

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    And that's why they call it the THIN blue line. It is indeed a thin line of officers.

    What makes policing work traditionally is that the general population might support the police. Police are only effective to the degree that the general populace supports what they're doing.
     
  12. DoubleWide

    DoubleWide

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    I always have to shake my head at some of you. You act like cops don't have to live somewhere.
     
  13. Gray Dood

    Gray Dood

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    Again, up to a point.

    NYPD IIRC has over 30,000 sworn officers. NYNG, 10s of thousands more. Almost none of the offensive capabilities of either organization has been seen so far. Like I said, massive restraint on the part of LEO so far. LE hasn't even shut down cell service.

    And is someone burning from a molotov any deader than a gunshot? Firebombs are a lethal threat. Arson is a lethal threat.

    I'd be very surprised if the screaming temper tantrum people I've seen would stand 40 seconds to a battalion of MPs after a heavy CS barrage.

    Time will provide the answer though if this stretches out much longer.
     
  14. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    It's always humorous to see someone realize something and then act as if they're the first to do so.

    America has a little over 1,000,000 sworn law enforcement officers in total for 330,000,000 Americans. The rule of law only exists because we let it.
     
  15. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne

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    Where we're headed? I thought that was the underpinning justification for the Second Amendment since Day 1? If the protesters are stupid enough to take on the government, then they're exercising a provision that the Founding Fathers put in place for exactly that reason. It's stupid, but apparently, encouraged.
     
  16. 9XX19mm

    9XX19mm

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    Time to even the odds. It's go time... Skip to 33:45



    POTUS just announced 6:50PM EST he will deploy the military to stop the riots in the states. If the Governors don't stop the riots... "I will deploy the US military and will solve the problem for them..."

    Orange Man to rioters:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. hilljo

    hilljo Outstanding

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    A large part of this lies at the feet of the "leadership" of these departments. My crowd control chops come from the late 90s; we were ALWAYS held back by our command staff. Poor leadership is what's preventing the streets being cleared.
     
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  18. Gray Dood

    Gray Dood

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    Do you really believe that the VAST majority of Americans, regardless of color, age, or ethnicity, want to have Afghanistan in the streets?

    Remind me what's humorous about that.
     
  19. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    Not at all, and I didn't hint at that.
     
  20. ReaPer105

    ReaPer105

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    NYC has about 40K cops if I remember correctly. They have how many million residents?
    Figure in the bad times, half the cops are off sleeping, half are working.
    Outnumbered only 100 to 1 in these things would be considered a blessing.
     
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