Glock Forum - GlockTalk banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
UBER VOL !!!
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://www.theblaze.com/news/former-cop-ahmaud-arbery-murder-skipping-trainings

Gregory McMichael, the former police officer who is charged with the murder of Ahmaud Arbery, lost his power to arrest on two occasions; most recently in 2019 for skipping trainings — including use-of-force training, the Washington Post reported.


McMichael, 64, is a former Glynn County police officer who retired in June 2019. Four months beforehand, the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council suspended his law enforcement certification for "failure to maintain training for the year 2018."

According to the Post, McMichael fell short in training hours in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010. In at least three of those years, records show, McMichael failed to complete mandatory use-of-force and firearms training. The training deficiency was flagged in 2014.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slamdunc

·
NRA Life Member
Joined
·
67,083 Posts
That certainly amounts to "so what?"

What I see in the real world, when this very common claim comes up in our cases, is that it's not a big deal and half the time due to poor record-keeping by the academy. Usually amounts to "hey, you need to make up that in-service class you didn't go to last month."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,903 Posts
I linked this in Post #547 in the other thread a couple days ago ...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gregory-mcmichael-charged-killing-ahmaud-144532136.html

McMichael was stripped of his "law enforcement" status early last year
"A memo from April 2014 indicated that Glynn County District Attorney Jackie Johnson had learned McMichael, an investigator in her office, didn't complete his Peace Officer Standards Training — including the required firearms and deadly force qualifications — for 2005, 2006, 2009, and 2010.

When Johnson learned of his lapse in required training, she visited the office of the state's POST Director Mitch Jones, who ultimately granted McMichael a waiver for the training. He told his boss in a letter that was included in his files that the reason he had fell behind on training was health issues related to his heart, difficulties involving his teenage daughter, and his wife's cancer treatment. "


More likely to add some murk to the eventual civil suit if presented to a jury. Might not look good for the DA's office not to stay on top of it for so many years, though.
 

·
UBER VOL !!!
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That certainly amounts to "so what?"

What I see in the real world, when this very common claim comes up in our cases, is that it's not a big deal and half the time due to poor record-keeping by the academy. Usually amounts to "hey, you need to make up that in-service class you didn't go to last month."
My point was that if had made it to some of that use of force training, he might not have thought is was such a good idea to chase down a guy, with his son, with guns, in a truck, and provoke a violent confrontation. With no RAS, PC, or qualified immunity on his side.

I think he forgot he was not a cop any more. Based on his actions, he forgot lots of stuff from training. Or, maybe he didn’t go.
 

·
UBER VOL !!!
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,817 Posts
The premise that Use of Force training is perishable annually and that failing to attend training in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010 [UOF training in three of the aforementioned years]; then to have GA POST note the deficiency in 2014 and subsequently suspend his certification in 2018, led to the homicide of Arbery is highly improbable.

UOF training is not perishable annually, it is simply done as a professional indemnification of the Agency and the Government that employs such an agency. They can claim proactive training should one of their employees acts or fails to act correctly according to policy and within the law.

My understanding is that McMichael [SR.] was a LEO for Glynn County PD and the District Attorney's Office as an investigator. This amounts as a considerable length of time and he should be able to understand, act, and reasonably articulate an appropriate UOF to anyone with a professional knowledge of the common Federal civil rights standards and Georgia State Criminal law. He may not have had any recent updates in the law, but UOF law is slowly evolutionary.

Not to make excuses for McMichael [SR.], but there are reason why LEOs do not attend in-service training: medical issues, Court proceedings, investigations in and out of state, familial issues, bereavement, or extraordinary circumstances like COVID-19, tornadoes, hurricanes, 9-11, Oklahoma City bombing, etc.

If UOF is perishable according to your premise, every Concealed Weapon Permit holder should be mandated to attend such training annually, but most are not. Keep in mind that McMichael [SR.] was acting as and is a citizen now, during the incident, and prior to the incident for months, if not longer. He has no training requirements to adhere to or to be measured against, only Georgia State Statutes as far as the criminal case goes.

One cannot conflate and impose LEO standards on a retired person who has no official law enforcement affiliation.

That said, McMichael [SR.] has the burden of proof in civil court to show that his actions and failures to act in restraining his son were not related to the killing of Arbery. His actions in the criminal investigation will not likely comport to the legal standards of justifiable homicide, due to claim of self defense.

I have not compared the Zimmerman to the McMichael case, but similarities seem to exist to both playing at LEO when they had no obligation to act as other than reporting party/witness or the inherent right to do so.

A redacted public copy of the report is available here:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

An initial homicide report that is only six brief paragraphs long is highly anomalous in my experience. I admittedly do not have LEO experience in Georgia, but that report reads like a supplement with a minimalist effort behind it.
 

·
Massive Member
Joined
·
25,749 Posts
Not sure what difference it makes if Sr. was behind in his training, he wasn’t a cop and he wasn’t the one using force, his son was.

Why in the world he let his son take the lead here is beyond me.

He had no business trying to make a citizens arrest, let alone his son. He should have known better, no radio, no backup, no vest, even a current off duty cup would have avoided that. But at least he would have had some sense regarding weapon retention and not putting himself in a position to need to know it.

His son did not, figured the gun was a talisman that commands obedience.

Randy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
UBER VOL !!!
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Not sure what difference it makes if Sr. was behind in his training, he wasn’t a cop and he wasn’t the one using force, his son was.

Why in the world he let his son take the lead here is beyond me.

He had no business trying to make a citizens arrest, let alone his son. He should have known better, no radio, no backup, no vest, even a current off duty cup would have avoided that. But at least he would have had some sense regarding weapon retention and not putting himself in a position to need to know it.

His son did not, figured the gun was a talisman that commands obedience.

Randy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You are making my point for me.

Senior did EVERYTHING wrong.

Since he was a 20 year retired officer, he should know better than to do what he did.

But, maybe he didn’t catch on that what he was doing was full blown stupid because he missed a bunch of training on use of force laws, and other laws. Of course, it’s possible that he knew the law and ignored it, or he thought he was acting legally. Which would be totally shocking to me.

I started the thread trying to be a little tongue in cheek. Sometimes the sarcasm misses the mark.

There are 3 explanations for his actions (that I could think of):

1. Senior didn’t know that what he was doing was wrong. As a retired cop, he should have.

2. Senior did know that what he was doing was wrong, but did it anyway, thinking that he was going to be protected by the good old boy network. A good “arrest” might make your buddies forget that it was totally illegal.

3. Senior got excited, his cop gland kicked in, and he acted totally without thinking.


I’m shocked how old boy got hip deep in a ****ty situation of his own making, and didn’t seem to recognize that he even stepped in something smelly.

That sounds like either a serious lack of training, or just pure dumbassery.

ETA: Yes, Senior was using force too. He was also armed. He was in the bed of the truck so he could see better, and direct the chase better. When Arbery ran up on the son, Senior pointed a handgun at him. He didn’t fire, to my knowledge, for fear of hitting his son. He was absolutely an armed participant in this thing.
 

·
Massive Member
Joined
·
25,749 Posts
You are making my point for me.

Senior did EVERYTHING wrong.

Since he was a 20 year retired officer, he should know better than to do what he did.

But, maybe he didn’t catch on that what he was doing was full blown stupid because he missed a bunch of training on use of force laws, and other laws. Of course, it’s possible that he knew the law and ignored it, or he thought he was acting legally. Which would be totally shocking to me.

I started the thread trying to be a little tongue in cheek. Sometimes the sarcasm misses the mark.

There are 3 explanations for his actions (that I could think of):

1. Senior didn’t know that what he was doing was wrong. As a retired cop, he should have.

2. Senior did know that what he was doing was wrong, but did it anyway, thinking that he was going to be protected by the good old boy network. A good “arrest” might make your buddies forget that it was totally illegal.

3. Senior got excited, his cop gland kicked in, and he acted totally without thinking.


I’m shocked how old boy got hip deep in a ****ty situation of his own making, and didn’t seem to recognize that he even stepped in something smelly.

That sounds like either a serious lack of training, or just pure dumbassery.

ETA: Yes, Senior was using force too. He was also armed. He was in the bed of the truck so he could see better, and direct the chase better. When Arbery ran up on the son, Senior pointed a handgun at him. He didn’t fire, to my knowledge, for fear of hitting his son. He was absolutely an armed participant in this thing.
I'm not sure we that far apart. I think he was just an idiot that a few extra training sessions would not have made a bit of difference.

He didn't mess up the fine technical points of the mechanics of effecting an arrest, or split hairs on some fine point of constitutional law.

The whole concept was a goat rodeo, even just to do it himself. Dragging his completely untrained buddy and his son along for some action, to actually participate, was the height of idiocy.

Even a currently certified cop would think twice about wading into stuff if life and limb aren't in jeopardy. Not likely for a potential third rate burglary, and no way bring along family and friends for moral support let alone active participation. Get your family and friends out of there.

This is not the kind of stuff anybody thinks they have to teach in training, it's assumed you're smart enough to know that.

If there was a training failure it's on the part of whoever passed him on his psych eval to hire him.

Randy

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top