Glock Talk banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

· Devil Dog
Joined
·
702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Occasionally I will get a round that will fail to fire.I squeeze the trigger and hear a click. I try to eject the round but cant,it's like its stuck in chamber. I remove the lower,reset the trigger by hand then attach lower and squeeze trigger. Round then fires. This has happened in 3 brand new Ar's. However,it doesnt seem to happen to the rifle that has 500 rounds through her. What is wrong with my rounds? The COAL is between 2.236-2.350. I'm using 55 gr Soft points.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40,458 Posts
Occasionally I will get a round that will fail to fire.I squeeze the trigger and hear a click. I try to eject the round but cant,it's like its stuck in chamber. I remove the lower,reset the trigger by hand then attach lower and squeeze trigger. Round then fires. This has happened in 3 brand new Ar's. However,it doesnt seem to happen to the rifle that has 500 rounds through her. What is wrong with my rounds? The COAL is between 2.236-2.350. I'm using 55 gr Soft points.
Handloads or factory? If hand loads, the shoulder may need to be pushed back another 0.001-0.002". Especially if you use range brass, do to chamber variations, you may just not be resizing enough. The other issue could be too long an oal, but I doubt it in most ar.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,024 Posts
I was thinking possibly a primer that was not fully seated, first strike pushed the primer in all the way, second strike detonated it.

but... that doesn't explain the stuck case. Do you ever find the need to use the forward assist to get it fully into battery?

I suggest getting a case gauge and check your rounds.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
21,903 Posts
I had a Colt HBAR Match that had an extremely tight chamber, numerous failure to fire followed by lots of pogo. This was with reloaded ammo, no problems with factory ammo. I used a small base die to cure the problem.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,238 Posts
The misfire is likely a "proud" or not fully seated primer. If the case is stuck, I think Fred is on the right track that a bit more shoulder bump is needed. If you have an in-spec chamber then a case gage will be a boon to knowing if your brass is re-sized right.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Stuck cases almost certainly mean you're not sizing the body quite enough, ARs are extremely unlikely to have short enough leade to jam the lands. First strike of the fp is able to push the round against the shoulder of the chamber or get it stuck enough, second fires it, seems unlikely, more likely you have improperly sized cases and a some improperly seated primers. Die is out of spec, not adjusted right, and/or the chambers are very tight.

Next time instead of resetting the trigger mortar the rifle and examine the offending round. Compare all dimensions to rounds that do feed and eject, commercial perhaps. Inspect your reloads for high or loose primers
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,030 Posts
Here is some data on primers and primer pockets. If you take the middle of the tolerances, you can figure out how deep the primer should be sitting (essentially flush):

http://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php

A more likely scenario is the primer is minimum and the pocket is maximum and the depth will be 0.008". Some measuring of the actual condition would be useful.

You simply can't reload bottle-neck rifle without a case gauge. There are more precise tools but the gauge is the absolute minimum. If I had to bet, the shoulder is too far forward and, if I were doubling-down, I would bet the die isn't bottoming out to the point of the press camming over while the case is resized. But I have been wrong before...

That shoulder location is critical. Too short and there is a possibility of case head separation. Too long and the round can jam in the chamber. The case gauge tests both possibilities and it checks the brass overall length as well.

Are you using an RCBS X-die to control neck extension or are you trimming to length? The case will always grow when resized unless expansion is controlled by something like the X-die. Even with the X-die, you have to trim once to minimum length.

I guess before we can provide any definitive recommendations, we need to know a lot more about your process.

Richard
 

· Devil Dog
Joined
·
702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here is some data on primers and primer pockets. If you take the middle of the tolerances, you can figure out how deep the primer should be sitting (essentially flush):

http://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php

A more likely scenario is the primer is minimum and the pocket is maximum and the depth will be 0.008". Some measuring of the actual condition would be useful.

You simply can't reload bottle-neck rifle without a case gauge. There are more precise tools but the gauge is the absolute minimum. If I had to bet, the shoulder is too far forward and, if I were doubling-down, I would bet the die isn't bottoming out to the point of the press camming over while the case is resized. But I have been wrong before...

That shoulder location is critical. Too short and there is a possibility of case head separation. Too long and the round can jam in the chamber. The case gauge tests both possibilities and it checks the brass overall length as well.

Are you using an RCBS X-die to control neck extension or are you trimming to length? The case will always grow when resized unless expansion is controlled by something like the X-die. Even with the X-die, you have to trim once to minimum length.

I guess before we can provide any definitive recommendations, we need to know a lot more about your process.

Richard
I was trimming to length before resizing. I think this may be the culprit? I now have 100 brass that I have resized then trimmed. I also now have a lyman case gauge.I plan to load these 100 rounds this weekend.I will give a report shortly thereafter. I would like to thank each and every one of you for the replies,I greatly appreciate it.
 

· Devil Dog
Joined
·
702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Right! That would leave the neck too long and could lead to some kind of jam. The case gauge will be a big help.

Richard
I just loaded 15 rounds with the newly,correctly, prepped brass. They fit in the case gauge,but not flush,and they do not drop freely when turning the gauge over. This is likely from not being correctly resized? I wouldnt think that length would be the issue,but I'm a rifle newb.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,030 Posts
I just loaded 15 rounds with the newly,correctly, prepped brass. They fit in the case gauge,but not flush,and they do not drop freely when turning the gauge over. This is likely from not being correctly resized? I wouldnt think that length would be the issue,but I'm a rifle newb.
If the base of the case isn't between the two levels on the case gauge (it does have 2 levels, right?) then your sizing die isn't adjusted properly. Dragging a single-edge razor blade across the levels and brass will make it easy to see when the base is in the proper location.

There's only 0.007" tolerance on the location of the datum on the shoulder. That's less than 2 thicknesses of ordinary printer paper:

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/223 Remington.pdf

If the case is extended, you need to set the die lower. The shoulder is too far forward. In most cases, the die is designed such that the die and shellholder need to touch at the bottom of the stroke. Maybe even just a bit more than 'touch', the press itself should 'cam over' slightly such that ALL of the slack is taken out of the mechanism.

I don't know which die you are using and that's kind of important. Maybe not to me because I am not a die expert but to some of the fellows around here.

Some folks like to use a small base die because it sizes the case just a wee bit smaller down around the base. Other folks would rather not overwork the brass. It's really important that ammo for gas guns feed correctly. The last thing we need is an out-of-battery discharge. Or a slam-fire from a high primer.

ETA: There must be some reason that the small base die was invented!

Richard
 

· Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Richard, I actually case gauge all my prepped brass before reloading. I have had some stuck cases in the past and some just don't resize enough for my rifle and I use a Small base RCBS die. I think that is a result of range pick up and a tight chamber in my Stag 3G. If they fit the case gauge I haven't had a problem. I use the EGW once with 7 holes.
 

· Devil Dog
Joined
·
702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If the base of the case isn't between the two levels on the case gauge (it does have 2 levels, right?) then your sizing die isn't adjusted properly. Dragging a single-edge razor blade across the levels and brass will make it easy to see when the base is in the proper location.

There's only 0.007" tolerance on the location of the datum on the shoulder. That's less than 2 thicknesses of ordinary printer paper:

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/223 Remington.pdf

If the case is extended, you need to set the die lower. The shoulder is too far forward. In most cases, the die is designed such that the die and shellholder need to touch at the bottom of the stroke. Maybe even just a bit more than 'touch', the press itself should 'cam over' slightly such that ALL of the slack is taken out of the mechanism.

I don't know which die you are using and that's kind of important. Maybe not to me because I am not a die expert but to some of the fellows around here.

Some folks like to use a small base die because it sizes the case just a wee bit smaller down around the base. Other folks would rather not overwork the brass. It's really important that ammo for gas guns feed correctly. The last thing we need is an out-of-battery discharge. Or a slam-fire from a high primer.

ETA: There must be some reason that the small base die was invented!

Richard

Yes,my gauge does have 2 levels.I am using a Lee resizing die.I just checked my die and it wasn't down enough to touch the shell plate. I just adjusted it so that it was a tad more than just touching,I'm going to resize a few now and see if that helps.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,030 Posts
Yes,my gauge does have 2 levels.I am using a Lee resizing die.I just checked my die and it wasn't down enough to touch the shell plate. I just adjusted it so that it was a tad more than just touching,I'm going to resize a few now and see if that helps.
It only counts if it is a tad more touching while actually resizing a case. It's surprising how much deflection there can be in presses.

Richard
 

· DEPLORABLE ME!
Joined
·
12,204 Posts
Are you cleaning your primer pockets?
 

· Ninja
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
You need to be sure you bump your shoulder back a touch.

Remember, gauges might not be an exact copy of your chamber. In fact, I think gauges are the devil.

Just use your chamber. It is the most accurate gauge you can use.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,024 Posts
I suspect the two problems are separate issues.

The failure to fire problem is probably primers not fully seated. That's why they fire on the second try.

The stuck case is very likely brass not fully sized. Be sure the die is down where it should be. It sounds like it's almost there, because you only notice it when you happen to have a FTF and need to pull the charging handle back. If you never have a FTF, you'd probably never notice the sizing issue, because the case extracts/ejects just fine when it fires and the bolt cycles normally.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top