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Discussion in 'Moto Club' started by One Ragged Hole, May 19, 2005.
Is anybody else impressed at how fast the Pro Stock Harleys and Buells are?
With enough money, you can make anything go fast.
Yes and no.
Pro stock bikes are anything but stock. Especially the V-twins. Those motors have almost NOTHING to do with a harley or buell engine. They are designed from the ground up specifically for pro-stock racing, by people like Byron Hines and George Bryce, not Eric Buell or Willie G. It is amazing how fast they have made a V-twin go, but, again look at who is designing the bikes, 2 of the most famous and best pro-stock bike masterminds. So it's not very surprising.
I do like the fact that they have interrupted the Suzuki GS dominance. It's nice to see something different out there. It forces competition and competition is good and what the people want to see.
I hope I can afford to go to the Indy race this year.
No. The NHRA rules allow the Harleys to run twice the CCs of the Jap bikes. For as long as I remember the Harleys have tried to qualify and never even came close. All of the sudden, they ran low 7s.
If you asked me (knowing the NHRA like I do), someone with a bunch of money payed someone else to "edit" the rules in order to allow the Harleys to compete. Pick up an NHRA rulebook and rear the Pro Sotck bikes rules. It's great for a laugh.;Q
The is straight out of the NHRA 2005 rulebook...
Must be of a type specifically designed and manufactuered for a production motorcycle. Harley V-twin or NHRA-accepted American push rod V-twin, 45 degree case only, maximum 3,278cc (200cid). All other 2 valve engines, maximum 1508cc (92cid); 4 valve engines 1994 model year and newer, maximum 1429cc (87.2cid); all older 4 valve engines maximum 1295cc (79cid). HNRA accepted aftermarket Harley-Davidson or American push rod V-twin engine cases with cylinder angle between 45 and 60 degrees, up to 160cid, permitted.
If one understood engine design (V-twin vs inline 4) than you would know that the displacement rules aren't very far out of line at all.
And exactly what part on a Pro Stock Suzuki is manufactured by Suzuki? Besides the decals.
The cases, which are modified.
I understand them very well. Still doesn't explain how they became competetive virtually over night. Again, somthing smells fishy. We do remember how the NHRA screwed the Pro Stock Truck teams, right?
It's all about the pocket book.
Overnight? It was at least 2 years that I am aware of. And that was after bringing in the best in the business. Vance and Hines do not work on losing efforts.
It's always about the pocket book...........;Q
And why not? Suzuki's getting beaten at the drags by Harley's? Even those with only a passing interest in drag racing are talking. People show up to see this. It can only be good.
It's been two years since they have been competetive, yes. However, there was not an "in-between" time where they were close to making the show, but just barely didn't qualify. If you recall correctly, they were always WAY slower than the qualifying field. Then, suddenly, they were instantly in the low 7s. I'm sorry, but not even Vance and Hines are that good. There is an enormous amount of R&D that is involved in order to pick up that much in this sport. It doesn't happen overnight, not without a serious alteration in the rules (and who knows what else).
People are talking alright...and it's not all good.
Does that mean until Harley entered the arena the rules were written in favor of Suzuki? or Chev, or John Force?
The talk doesn't have to be good. It just has to sell seats.
Like you said....it' all about the money.
Not at all. It means the Harleys weren't favorable to drag racing with inline 4cyl. 15,000rpm engines. Same thing happened in the Top Fuel motorcycle class. The Harleys couldn't compete with the inline 4s there either. Instead of altering the rules, they gave the fuel Harleys their own class. If you look at the rule book, every other class and sub-class in professional drag racing are equal. In no other class are there rules that allow one competing machine twice the engine displacement as the rest (not even if the smaller displacement engines have a power adder!). Only in Pro Stock bike.
Why did they decide to basically to re-write the rule book in Pro Stock? As mentioned, money. So, to re-answer the original question, no, it's not impressive. Sure, someone on the outside looking in may be impressed since they didn't know what had to happen in order for the Harleys to compete. Once you see the drastic rule changes, however, it doesn't seem all that impressive.
Actually I believe the rule existed just no one used it to thier advantage. Last year they dropped the displacement for V-twins in the middle of the last season because of V&H's dominance. The displacement difference is theier to try and level the playing field. That is why the 8 valve air cooled enignes (the GS based ones) are allowed more than a liquid cooled 16 valver. Now would you say that's unfair too? If all were equal the GS based bikes would loose too, the modern designs (liquid cooled 16 valvers) would take over.
BTW a displacement advantage for V-twins is not new. They did the same thing for Ducati in world/AMA Superbike (allowed 1000cc against the I-4's 750cc).
Is it fair. No. It wasn't meant to be fair. it was meant to try and make the racing a bit closer with a better mix of bikes. Ultimately it makes for more fans.
And yes Pro stock bike is more popular than ever because of HD. There are a hell of a lot of HD fans out there that like to see thier brand win (and will pay to do so). The extra cash is good for everybody in the class (thus, no one *****ing too loudly). I still feel the GSs are competitive. Both Angelle and Antron have ran 6s this season (first in the 6s ever).
Hines had 10mph over the rest of the Harley field in Ohio. So much for a level playing field.
And if they keep going that much faster,the NHRA will cut the displacement again, just like last year.
They will keep doing it until it does even out.