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Predominant Red Dot in GSSF

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Fenwick223, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. Fenwick223

    Fenwick223

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    There seems to be little doubt that the Carver mount is the way to go in GSSF competition. And when it comes to red dot sights, the majority of competitors use the C-More or one of the Tasco/BSA (which appear to be the same) or Bushnell units. My question is, while the UltraDot seems to be "the red dot" for Bullseye competition, there is little mention of them in GSSF competition? Conversely, there is little mention of the C-More in Bullseye. Is it the nature of the competitions that favor one sight over another? I have an UltraDot on my MKII and it is great and I was thinking about getting one for my 34 with a Carver mount but don't want to make a mistake putting on the "wrong" sight on if for some reason the C-More is better for GSSF. What's the story?
     
  2. JWG_34

    JWG_34 TeamCarverMount

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    I like the aimpoint scope myself. But the c-more is a good choice too. Go with the scope that you fell comfortable with. But you are right , the carver mount is the way to go fo GSSF. Good luck with what ever you go with.
     

  3. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    In the past the Tasco PDP5CMP was the favorite. It's no longer available. In fact the fastest time in U/L was set with a PDP5. You'll find that most of the "hot shoes" now are using the C-more or Aimpoint, both have good and bad points. If I need to replace my PDP5 I think I will try the Nikon Monarch. It has variable dot size (not the same as the PDP5) and uses the same weaver mount. The Aimpoint is nice, but real pricey. If I worked at Freightliner like Jeff maybe I could afford one. ;f Right Jeff?
     
  4. BCarver

    BCarver CLM Millennium Member

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    The Ultra Dot is an excellent sight and would suffice in GSSF shooting. The characteristics that I would recommend in the model of any sight that you may choose include:
    1. At least a 30mm tube to allow a larger field of view
    2. A minimum 8MOA dot, available in the Ultra Four model

    These two features are important in GSSF shooting because you are transitioning from one target to another quickly and the larger the field of view, the more efficiently you can accomplish the setup. The larger dot, is important when shooting the white steel in bright sunlight. A small 4MOA will bleed out and you will not be able to see it quickly when transitioning.

    I'm an old Master class bullseye shooter but never used optics until I retired from Bullseye shooting. As you know when shooting bullseye, you have plenty of time allowed in the par settings and transitions are not necessary because you are shooting the same target at a specific distance.

    Another reason that most shooters began shooting the Tasco PDP5 was because it was a large 40+MM tube and had multiple dot sizes. Most shooters, including myself, would use a smaller dot on the 5 to Glock to achieve more precision shots and would increase the dot size on the Glock M and plates due to the "wash out" of the dot on the steel, etc Another reason that most GSSF shooters appointed the Tasco PDP5 as the sight of choice was because the best scores shot in UL were shot by competitors using the Tasco PDP5.

    When Tasco was bought by Bushnell and the PDP5 with its features was no longer available, many competitors began looking for another sight. I won the Glock national shoot in 2002 using an Aimpoint to promote our new Aimpoint mount which launched another sight of choice for the GSSF competitions. I switched back to the CMore because I had two new Aimpoints malfunction in a the American Handgunner World Shootoff in 2003.

    Here's a list of advantages of tube sights (any manufacturer), CMore and Aimpoint sights:

    Tube sights:
    Advantages:
    ** Extra weight to control the muzzle flip
    ** Multiple dots available
    ** Cost efficient
    ** Most sights sit high enough to avoid conflicts with the ejection of the brass

    Disadvantages:
    ** Field of view is obstructed from the knobs and thickness of the tube
    ** Circuitry dependability is questionable
    ** The dot sits higher above the bore, even on a CARVER Mount
    ** Parallex is common

    CMore sights:
    Advantages:
    ** Open field of view, no obstructions.
    ** Multiple dot sizes are available
    ** Positions dot lower than the tube sights but not as low as the
    Aimpoint
    ** VERY dependable
    ** Hardly any parallex

    Disadvantages
    ** A bit pricey: $229 to $299
    ** Lighter weight will not reduce muzzle flip
    ** Unless you are using a CARVER Hunter Model mount, lowering the ejection port is necessary because the brass hits the rear of the CMore when ejected

    Aimpoint sights:
    Advantages:
    ** Dot is positioned the LOWEST possible height above the bore
    ** Additional weight controls the muzzle flip
    ** No parallex

    Disadvantages:
    ** Expensive: $299 to $359
    ** Dot sizes are limited: 4-7-12 (We recommend a 7)
    ** Circuitry is not dependable
    ** Unless you are using a CARVER Hunter Model mount, lowering the ejection port is necessary because the brass hits the rear of the Aimpoint when ejected

    I hope that this summarization will assist you in your decision. As you know, these are only my opinions based upon my testing and experiences. If I can be of any other assistance, please let me know.
     
  5. Fenwick223

    Fenwick223

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    My thanks to Bobby Carver for taking the time to provide a detailed response to my question. Now it's time to save some bucks, make a decision, and place an order with Bobby.
     
  6. JWG_34

    JWG_34 TeamCarverMount

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    The main reason I went with the aimpoint was on the good advice of my shooting coaches, Jerry. I wished I did work at freightliner,then I could afford 2 aimpoint scopes. ;) I guess being single has a few advantages. ;f
     
  7. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    It doesn't matter what dot you use. It's the shooter that does most of the work.;9
     
  8. Sniper 7.62

    Sniper 7.62

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    Your right on the money with that one TJC ^c
     
  9. GJM89

    GJM89

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    I'm crushed, did everyone forget the sled as an option, Waterproof and built to military specs., auto shut off and built in battery tester. There are also several new models using AA battery's. Also, no tube to look thru just a nice holographic HUD display.^c ^c ^c ^c
     
  10. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    The Sled, yea right.

    Watch for a return of........
     
  11. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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  12. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    and finally the dot is.....
     
  13. GJM89

    GJM89

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    Gee Tom, so odd of you to be so optimistic. Don't you always say it's the shooter not the equipment. Stop by Jackson and I'll give you a ride on a sweet 34 with a sled on top. You have to admit that it's nice to have a waterproof dot at times.;f ;f ;f ;f
     
  14. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    Glen, it is true that the shooter is a big part, no doubt. But it is even better when a good shooter puts good equipment to use. ;f

    What I have also said many times is you can't buy good shooting and scores with equipment if you are unable to hold up your end of the bargain. ;P

    If you shoot fast enough you aren't out in the rain long enough to worry about it. I never had a problem with that nice setup that is shown above. ;)
     
  15. GJM89

    GJM89

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    Hey Tom, don't get me wrong, I have a Tasco on my 17L and I really like it, I would have bought several if I knew they were going to stop making them. I would just hate to ruin it in a rain soaked match like at Long Island last year,cover didn't help and the rain was running off the tarp onto the guns and dots at the 5 to Glock.;i ;i
     
  16. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    I don't use or need scopes like that anymore but the PDP5 was a great scope. I had a couple and sold 1 or 2 when I stopped shooting GSSF. Still have the 1 for Big Blue but it looks like that one will be leaving me real soon along with the rest of the setup. ;)
    I wouldn't be surprised to see it making a come back though.

    Only red dot I use now is a C-More on top of a .223 along with a pop up rear site.
    Funny thing is, that was my original red dot on a G17 with a 17L barrel when I first started using a dot in GSSF.
     
  17. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Hey, old guy; you going to bring that "Sled" out of the snow and shoot at Anderson next weekend. You're are not going to fink out and use the too much snow excuse again are you? ;f ;f ;f
     
  18. GJM89

    GJM89

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    There are many Sleds, with NV capability, mounted on M-4s, being used on a regular basis in a land far away, as we speak.They are thought of very highly in the CQB situations currently encountered and being waterproof to 30 Ft. has come in very handy, I have been told.
     
  19. GJM89

    GJM89

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    Hey old man I'll be their, bring your Geritol and your sense of humor and be afraid, be very afraid ( used with permission of Fireglock or Nozzledick, one or the other ).;) ;) ;) ;) ^3
     
  20. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Yeah but they're still ugly! ;f