pre academy CCW

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by onelowtruck69, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. onelowtruck69

    onelowtruck69

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    Hello all, proud to say next week i swear in at my the local sheriffs office,however it may be several months(up to 12) before i complete the acadamy.Now having been a CCW permit holder for 5 years ,im told i can not carry, even off duty on personal time untill completetion of the acadamy. Wich is understandable because an unjustified shooting could realy bring some bad rep to the office however after carying daily all these years its gunna make me nervous traveling through rough parts of the city and during everyday and evening errands with my family.I wish there was a way around it. I wish i could atleast have it in my truck when traveling through the rough part of town to get to the jail everyday.What is your take on this? Any experiences? I have been through several processes and always got cut at the end of the process so im verry excited to have finaly gotten in and am willing to do what i have to to ebrace this opportunity i was just curous as to how other departments do this and what the exact policys are.
    Thanks,
    Thomas
     
  2. Pepper45

    Pepper45

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    Policy is policy, no matter what. Since you're the new guy, don't rock the boat. Comply with their policy, but you might ask some questions for clarification. Many departments have that policy, but they say that you cannot carry concealed on their credentials, but that if you leave your badge/ID at home, you can carry on a concealed handgun license. I would think that if you're not representing the department in any way (no ID, badge, uniform, etc.) that they really can't regulate what you do as long as it's legal.
     

  3. blueiron

    blueiron

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    We had that policy for a couple of months, but had to void it because it is violates the State Constitution.

    As long as you do not identify yourself as having any affiliation with your agency, you should be good. I would ask an attorney, but understand that they can terminate your employment for any reason they elect to.
     
  4. onelowtruck69

    onelowtruck69

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    Thank you, that was kinda what i was thinking if i didnt carry my badge and was just joe blo citizen coming out of walmart at night and had a gun in my face and had to shoot then any justified shooting is still a justified shooting, i could undertsand if i was in was uniform non cerifified and witnessed a violent crime and opened fire with a non department issue weapon. I feel i should still be able to defend myslef and my family should i need to. Once i get my foot in the door good i will ask some questions and hopefully my performance in the jail will justify a quick entry to the acadamy i so can carry as i always have.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  5. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    Another option is for your wife to obtain a CCW.
     
  6. BAILIFF

    BAILIFF Piece Officer

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    I'm over here now.
    'Till you finish the Academy and probation, try not to leave the house so much. Or fart. Or much anything else.
     
  7. Denied

    Denied NRA Member

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    The ability to follow regulations is important and finding out you are looking for a way around those regulations could make you a candidate for McDonalds or barber collage very quickly. FOLLOW THE REGs get used to it IF you really want to be LEO.
     
  8. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    I can understand a prohibition on carrying on your badge until you graduate the academy. I don't understand how they think they can prohibit you carrying on your CCW on your own time. Don't think that would withstand a challenge.

    When I went to the academy we traveled back in forth in uniform and in a marked unit. I told the Chief then that if he thought I was going to do that unarmed he was out of his ******* mind. His reply was, "I don't expect you to be unarmed."
     
  9. spdski

    spdski CLM

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    Does VA law consider having a loaded pistol in your vehicle to be "carry?" What if you have it locked in a small safe of some sort?

    Then you're not violating policy when you drive through bad parts of town.

    Also, do what Cochese said, and have you wife get the CCW for times when you go out as a family.


    ETA: For the sake of my reading comprehension and your future DOR's, please spell check your work!
     
  10. RF7126

    RF7126

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    Did you make it clear you meant you were going to carry on your license and not the dept. credentials? It still seems kind of odd that they would prohibit carrying on your license. Just curious.
     
  11. Orlando Eric

    Orlando Eric

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    key word here... CONCEALED carry. I have been carrying a concealed firearm since 1990 and have NEVER been asked to see my CWL yet.
     
  12. onelowtruck69

    onelowtruck69

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    I have not asked yet this is just what a buddy of mine who is a deputy told me.I have orientation and all that good stuff this week so i will try and find out the specific regs.Its not like im taking off duty work in uniform using my personal weapon.
     
  13. onelowtruck69

    onelowtruck69

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    Its not about being asked to see your permit,it about if i had to use the weapon in a justified shooting off duty and on my own time. Because i am LE thats the first thing the DA will hit me with and then it will drag the sheriffs office into the politics of it all. I wish there was a waver or something i could sign that would remove liability of the agency when i am off duty with my personal weapon.
     
  14. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    I think you will find he is talking about carrying on your badge being prohibited. That is pretty much standard anywhere.
     
  15. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    This. They can prohibit you from doing lots of things on the department creds until you are sworn, but your personal CCW is a separate personal issue that is legal and has nothing to do with them as long as you do not claim to be using their creds but only as a private citizen.

    In CA, there's a weird twist on this angle that a lot of departments used to not allow their reserves to carry off-duty because reserves were LE only while on-duty (pre-2000) but if the reserve had his own personal non-LE CCW (not in SoCal), then they really couldn't say much about it as long as it wasn't in conjunction with his badge/creds. Of course, if your department chief gave you the civilian CCW along with your reserve creds, then you are good to go, but the laws changed now and reserves can carry on the creds alone without a CCW because reserves can be designated 24 hour peace officer.

    Dragoon, you mean when you went to Gladiator school in the company chariot, they expected you to wear the Centurion armor and have a Gladius, no?
     
  16. COLOSHOOTR

    COLOSHOOTR

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    They did not allow us to carry at all during the Academy. We were flat out told that we could not carry even if we had a CCW as a private citizen. If you were to get in an incident with a firearm while in the Academy you'd be in a lot of trouble. You may not get criminal charges since you have a CCW and assuming it's a justified shooting but violating Dept. regs is a whole different boat. You can kiss your career goodbye at that point.

    If it's a Department policy they can do as they please and if you want to remain employed you must do as your told. As a probationary hire you can get canned for doing anything the brass does not like including the carry of a weapon when you are told not to regardless if you carry on Agency Creds or as a CCW holder... Is it worth risking?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  17. merlynusn

    merlynusn

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    They told us the same thing. You can carry and be good under the law, but not departmental policy. What the department is concerned with is you getting into a shooting and when they ask your employer or do you have any firearms training, you say I work for the Sheriff's Office, etc.
     
  18. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    In some places getting involved in an OIS, even on duty and having worked there 10+ years, means you're going to go through all kinds of hell, and will possibly lose your job. Even if it's a clean shoot....

    I'd rather be tried by 12, and have to fight for my job, than to be carried by 6. If you're dead, you still lose your job by default. It's a little simplistic, but from my experience not a necessarily a bad philosophy.

    YMMV
     
  19. tortoise

    tortoise

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    My opinion: if they've told you not to carry, do not carry. It's that simple. Once you have sworn in, there is no more "on your own time" -academy completion or not.

    Once a sworn employee of the Sheriff, if you take action to prevent or terminate a crime, even against yourself, you are taking "police" action.

    The instant I take action off duty I go on the clock, same with every cop I know. Maybe it's different where you are, but here the fact that you are what we would refer to as an "unarmed/untrained" recruit won't make any difference. The Sheriff's office will bear the liability.

    A scenario of the type put forward (and not just by you, it's a recurring theme) is always the justified, "I shoot the bad guy." as if that'll make it all okay.

    It'll still likely bring a lawsuit, and if you're in violation of policy and on probation...

    But the reality could just as easily be, "I shot at the bad guy, but hit the guy behind the counter." -Guaranteed lawsuit.

    -And the headlines will read, "Off Duty Deputy Shoots Convenience Store Clerk."

    If department policy is don't carry right now, don't carry. That nervousness you feel is a good thing, it's a gift. Listen to your instincts and watch your back, but don't start seeking to circumvent regulations before you're even both feet through the door.

    Good luck to you.
     
  20. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

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    well you have to decide if staying alive and not being a deputy sheriff is better than dieing but save the sheriff's dept. image.

    by carrying YOUR OWN GUN concealed on YOUR PERMIT and making no connection with the S.O. if questioned is NOT violating any LAW.