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Practice and strategy/ a question or two.

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by mike g35, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. mike g35

    mike g35

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    I will be shooting three divisions (Comp, CivAm, and UL) at my next match in Lexington and I was trying to think of what order I should shoot them in. I was thinking that shooting UL and Comp first might prepare me better for shooting CivAM. And since thats where I need the most work I thought it it might benifit me to shake the jitters out before shooting my hardest division. Any opinions?

    I have also figured out that I can have all the nicest equipment and post the most on GT but that will never make me a great shooter. I have re-dedicated myself to a strict practice regiment. So much that I am going to buy a frame and an AA 22 conversion kit so I can practice with cheap rimfire ammo. I can shoot all the rimfire I want on the mountain behind my house. That said I plan to shoot 100 rounds minimum a day, every day. I shoot my centerfires at a rate of about 12 to 1500 rounds a month but that just isn't enough. And since I don't reload yet I have no choice but to find a cheaper way to practice if I want to practice every day. My question about this is should I worry myself with changing the sights on the 22 caliber slide to the same sights I use on my CivAm and Comp div. guns? I thought I should practice with the same sight picture as my other guns but I wasn't sure if it really made a difference.

    I think I came into this sport with a rather immature view. Thinking equipment would win matches and thinking that I knew everything. What I should have done is ask experienced shooters for help and practice with my stock Glock like so many of you have told me. Any help or tips from you guys would be highly appreciated and I apologize for any stupid things I may have said in the past.
    Mike
     
  2. SMLR

    SMLR

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    Mike,

    I usually shoot three divisions with my G17 (Master Stock, Competition, and Amateur Civilian). I shoot MS first, take a break and let another shooter through, and then shoot Comp, followed by AmCiv. I view MS as a warm-up run and then shoot the other two to count.

    I highly recommend getting a copy of "The Glock in Competition" (I got my copy from Bobby Carver), it has a really good chapter on GSSF shooting.

    Also, read "MORE GSSF Tips 2003" at the top of this forum. It's a wealth of great information and has really helped me to improve as a shooter.

    - Simon
     

  3. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    Okay, who are you and what did you do to the real Mike!!??

    :rofl:

    Just kidding. Sounds like you're making progress, and not just in your shooting.

    For your .22 question and sights... I think that is a GREAT idea. Since you seem to have the money available, I'd put the same sights on that slide as well. If I could shoot .22 in my backyard, I would in a heartbeat.

    For your "real" ammo.... I'd shoot 75%-80% with the iron sights, then the rest with the dot. Focus on accuracy first, speed second with the iron sights. I start off shooting a dollar-coin sized circle at 7 yards. 20 shots at each one, maybe 60 total. Goal is to all hit in the circle. I've never gotten all 20 in, but have 19 with one barely missing. More often 2-3 missing. Then at 13 yards try to keep them in a 3" circle (I'm not so good at this still, too many flyers).

    Then at 18 and 25 yards, keeping them in a 6" circle. Still, not as good as I'd like. Don't even worry about speed.

    Make the last part of your practice fun, burn through some 8" targets at 10-11 yards, doubles as fast as you can.

    Accuracy first, speed will come. This will help you in any shooting sport. Wish I had followed my own advice, spent the first year trying for speed. Didn't cover my fundamentals properly. Don't waste your time like I did. If you can't hit targets at 25 yards, you're going to be hampered in GSSF or USPSA (IDPA not so much).
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  4. mike g35

    mike g35

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    Thanks guys, and Ron, I too am wondering where the "real" Mike went:rofl:. Just kidding, actually the little talk we had the other day, even though you misunderstood my intent, was a very big wake-up call and I thank you for it. I mean who am I to be giving advice on shooting in competition:embarassed:? I know my guns and can teach about that and help other members with theirs but everything to do with competitions I will leave to you guys, the ones who have actual long term experience, from now on. In life I am a really modest and quiet guy, its time to show you guys the real Mike and quit acting like a know-it-all. Sorry about that GSSF members, I will be walking softly from now on.:wavey:
     
  5. mike g35

    mike g35

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    The 22 idea seems to be the cheapest and most practical way for me to get DAILY practice in. I just bought a frame from a friend so I can actually have a Glock pistol built only to shoot the 22 LR. But thats it for me buying guns for a while, equipment doesn't make the shooter and I need to start reloading. Ed woke me up to that.
     
  6. Justin1911

    Justin1911

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    The 22 thing is a great idea, I have a frame I got from glockmeister to put a 22 upper on with the same sights as my other glocks. In a given practice session I probably shoot 200-250 rds of 22 lr and 50-100 rds of centerfire (usually 9mm). Sounds like you plan to shoot a lot of rounds, I think that's great if you have the time/money, wish I could as well. However, setting up a dry-fire routine can do wonders and cost you zero. Just something else to think about.
     
  7. SARDG

    SARDG

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    I've never been a fan of practicing with a .22, for real (match) shooting with a centerfire - but I can see I'm in the minority. Some government agencies (that can afford it) even go so far as to look for ballistically similar ammo for training as they would use for regular duty.

    Trigger time and dry-firing are all well and good, but you need to experience the muzzle flip and recoil and control of those. Dunno, I've only ever fired a couple of mags through an Advantage Arms and it was a jam-o-matic. Most of the practice was in clearing the gun.
     
  8. mike g35

    mike g35

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    I have pretty much already accepted I will be clearing some jams but that isn't a big deal. As much as I work on my Glocks I will find a way to make it work. From what I hear the AA kits are very picky about the ammo you feed them but once you find the right ammo you are on easy street.
    I dry-fire practice constantly (I might as well sleep with my G22 in my hands) and I also shoot "real" ammo alot too. The 22lr will help me with trigger control and sight alignment and then when I shoot my "real" guns I can work on controlling muzzle flip and recoil. Accuracy can be practiced with both. I don't have alot of money contrary to popular belief due to my raceguns but I spend every extra penny on my sport. That allows me to shoot a pretty good bit even though I am shooting factory. I gotta get a Dillon 650 and soon. Then I will focus on shooting nearly all centerfire but until then the 22lr will make a great little practice piece and I can shoot it right behind my house every day. Shooting 100 rounds a day and then 4-500 centerfire on the weekends should give me plenty of practice time.
     
  9. SARDG

    SARDG

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    Listen to me Mike - I'm twice the shooter Ron is!



    ...well, my scores are twice what his are, anyway! :supergrin:
     
  10. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    Bama says anyone that would practice would also cheat. I don't see where there's much difference. I had a .22 upper for a Glock and it wouldn't run so I sold it. I do all my rimfire shooting with a pair of Ruger MkIIIs. As for what to shoot first I have 2 thoughts, first shoot first what you have the least chance of winning, second shoot in the order that gives you the best finish. some shooters get tired and do worse as the day goes on, others shoot worse right out of the box. for me i've not see a huge difference in my scores regardless of when or what order I shoot. I just want Bamatrooper to be my friend.
     
  11. mike g35

    mike g35

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    Thats very interesting, everyone here (almost) says the 22 conversion isn't worth having. I may have to reconsider that move. I definitely shoot my raceguns best so my thinking was: 1st shoot comp. because I can get my nerves calmed and warm up in a division I will most likely get slaughtered in anyway by you masters out there, 2nd shoot UL thats my best division and even though I still have to shoot against masters I have a pretty good bit of confidence in my skills with that paticular set up, 3rd shoot CivAm I would have already calmed way down and be as warmed up as I am going to get my skills with iron sights aren't where they need to be but I should be able to better than my last showing. Plus CivAm would be my slowest shooting, I wouldn't hold the match up at all that way. I'm hoping my nerves won't be as bad in Lexington as my first match but I want to have a plan just in case they are.
     
  12. mike g35

    mike g35

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    This rookie isn't going to be touching that one with a ten foot pole!!!:faint: All I can say is all of you should listen to me.
    That way you guys and gals might screw up and maybe I can win one!!!:tongueout:
     
  13. SARDG

    SARDG

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    Me too - but only one MKIII. And it's a RACEGUN!

    My opinion (and everyone has one)... would be to shoot your Comp first for warm-up of each stage, and then AmCiv, back-to-back while you're at the line(s). Since these guns are similar (and the most different from your UL), shooting the Comp should give you a reasonably similar warm-up. You probably want to do best at AmCiv as that's the 'money' Division where the special categories are counted and awarded and that's the Division that will count for your team score when you shoot on a team.

    Since I am in 2 special categories AND I haven't yet been banned from the AHC Team, I go for the higher score in AmCiv. YMMV.
     
  14. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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  15. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    i have a CMore on one and a Tactical Solutions top end with iron sights on the other, so both of mine are Raceguns. If you're on Facebook swing by the CARVER Custom page there and you can see pics of mine, plus a few of my wheelies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  16. S.Kargoh

    S.Kargoh

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    1500 rds a month is a hell of a lot. And is enough to get gssf good, in my opinion.


    It's what you do with those rounds that counts. Do you do drills? Or just blast away. I probably shoot 1k in a year. I would love to shoot more. Too busy. Too poor.


    But when i do shoot, i practice. I don't just burn powder.


    I shot the portland match after a ten year hiatus from gssf. Ihadnt shot steel in as long. I placed in the money there.

    Just sayin
     
  17. hagan34

    hagan34

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    Carver is on FB?!?!?!?

    saving up some pennies to get some Carver goodies. got the first part of my RACEGUN coming already.



    practice wise I've been working on Dry firing, and sight picture, got me a nice 8x8 elk a couple nights ago on the outdoors channel :faint:

    Mike i know you mentioned getting a dillon 650 but a couple of guys at work bought Lee 1000 presses, $150 at most online retailers, with dies included. not sure how much that AA .22LR conversion is but I'd bet you could get that press for about the same. Its a progressive and talking to the guys at work said they can easily pump out 200+ rds / hr with it. I was going to get one after I get some others paid off... one guy like his so much he ordered one for each caliber he shoots just to not have to re-set up dies between calibers. its not a Dillon but its a start and would at least get you going you can always upgrade dwn the road and resell the lee. Just my $.02
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  18. mike g35

    mike g35

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    Thats a really good point you have there. I don't just blast away but I'm not sure if the practice I do is benefitting me in the areas I need help the most.
    I usually shoot at 10, 15, and 25 yards in that order. I start by shooting one AP-1 just for accuracy and mix in plate runs where I can. I use knockovers and when the range is busy you can't just say "hey everybody wait for me to walk out and reset". After that I set-up 3 target stands with AP-1's , a 6 inch auto popper, and a 1/2 size IPSC Steel target and practice "micro" stages. I simulate the Five to Glock by shooting the three papers (6 rnds 2 per target) then use the three in conjunction with the auto popper for GlockM practice (7 rounds 1 steel 2 per paper) and while doing this I am still running six steel plates (8 inch plates at 11 yards). The 1/2 IPSC I use for double tap practice and sometimes I even throw it into the mix as another paper target replacement.
    My worry is that while I'm focusing on all this stage like practice I may not be focusing enough on the fundamentals. I like the idea about shooting Comp. then CivAm. That makes a little more snse then what I had originally planned.
    By the way I use AP-1's instead of D-1's for ease of scoring. I turn them backwards and shoot the plain brown side then score with the clearly defined rings on the back. I use a timer as well but its kind of hard to get an accurate reading at a range with everyone else shooting around you. Nice to have a buzzer to practice with though.
     
  19. mike g35

    mike g35

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    Thanks for the tip Michael. And yes Carver is on facebook. Go to the Carver Custom Team on facebook. Bobby just introduced a new racegun called the "Nova" and it is awesome. I have never heard anything ,good or bad, about the LEE 1000 but the Dillon Precision 650 seems to be very popular. I haven't made my mind up on the press yet. I have a couple more guns to finish building then I'm stopping with the guns and focusing souly on shooting. You already know I know my guns but it does me know good to have a $2000 racegun if I don't have the right loads and I don't get in the right practices. What do you think of my practices (the way I described in last post)??? Please be brutally honest.
     
  20. SARDG

    SARDG

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    Okay Ed... I see guys named 'Ed' and 'Don' over there, and Cindy Noyes - and lotsa Glocks. Am I blind or have you led me astray?

    I have a C-More Railway, Volquartsen trigger group, etc on a stainless Target/Competiton with Bullseye grips.