Potential Malfunction Diagnoses??

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by docj78, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. docj78

    docj78

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    Well. Another G23 day at the range = another malfunction. I've been to the range about 6/7 times and have passed the 1000 round mark. I have had at least 1 malfunction on every trip.

    Tonight, I shot 250 rounds and had 1 malfunction. This time as with others--there was an unfired round pointing diagonally up into the chamber with the slide half closed. It happened to be on the last round of this magazine this time--although I have seen this before mid magazine.

    Now, I marked the magazine and fired about 50 more rounds through it w/out fail.

    What is the actual term for this type of malfunction--this is a failure to feed, correct?

    What causes FTF's as opposed FTE's? Are there factors that can cause eihter/or? I at least need a short list of possible causes (besides limpwristing). I spoke to Glock today (prior to tonights malfunction) and was told it's my ammo (WWB), or of course, that I must be limpwristing.

    I am REALLY discouraged at this point. What are the ususal suspects with this particular screw up?
     
  2. firedawg60

    firedawg60

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    So how old is this 23? I could be a mag issue, but you kind of checked that. I was also thinking ammo. Your thumb isn't by chance a little high and rubbing against the slide? (happened w/my son a couple of weeks ago). I'm not sure. Maybe limp wristing!! jk
     

  3. mtnglocker

    mtnglocker

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    I had the same exact problem, except with an M&P .45. The last round in the magazine, about 2 out of 5 mags, would not feed and get hung up diagonally when the slide came back. It turned out to be an "out of adjustment extractor" according to LSG, who does the repairs for S&W. They probably just bent it a little. But after about 15 mags of all kinds of rounds, its fixed.
     
  4. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    Has the gun been modified in any way from it original factory condition?

    Have you tried any other ammo?

    Yup, that would be a failure to feed, a failure to eject would be after firing a round and the case isn't thrown out of the gun.

    There are numerous things that can cause an FTF, to include: gun cleanliness, magazine cleanliness, cartridge dimensions, cartridge power, bullet design, gun alterations, mag spring power, recoil spring power, and.......limpwristing.

    Why are you so quick to eliminate limpwristing as a possibility? You only have to fail to provide the platform needed for the gun to function on one time to cause a malfunction, and it's a pretty common thing for new shooters to do. (I'm guessing that you are relatively new to shooting auto pistols based on your FTF/FTE questions.....am I right?)

    Where are you located? What state?

    Have you had any training?
     
  5. docj78

    docj78

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    As far as my thumb goes-- my left thumb pad is actually chewed up from resting on the slide release lever during recoil/muzzle flip. So it's not on the slide.

    I GUESS it still could be limpwristing, but you'd think that malfunctions would happen even more frequently if i was consistenly gripping wrong. Also, I can see where FTE's would result from limpwristing, but can someone explain the mechanism/physics behind FTF's from LWing?

    I'm going back to the range to fire ONLY Federal range ammo and see what i get. I guess i could order a new barrel, new extractor, and new recoil assembly and knock out all of those possibilties.

    If an armorer takes a look and deems replacement parts necessary, are they provided from Glock free of charge? BTW, is there a resource on the site where you can look up local armorers?
     
  6. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    There's a factory armorer at each of these matches, and he brings the parts--> http://gssfonline.com/match-info.cfm


    .
     
  7. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    You don't have to do it consistently.....it only takes once.


    OK, the shooter has to basically hold the frame still enough so the recoil from the fired round can push the slide all the way back by overcoming the power of the recoil spring.

    If the slide fails to go back far enough to get the breechface behind the back edge of the magazine, it will fail to feed.....or, if the slide starts moving forward after just barely clearing the rear edge of the magazine, the mag spring may not get the next round up high enough for it to be fed correctly, and you get a FTF.

    If a specific bullet design doesn't feed well, and hangs up enough to slow the speed of the slide too much, you can get a FTF. If a specific cartridge isn't made within spec, it too can cause a FTF. Both of these may have fed OK had limpwristing not been present.....but they could have caused one without limpwristing too.

    Now it's your turn to answer some of my questions.......



    .
     
  8. mo.glocker

    mo.glocker

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    i dont think your thumb should be getting CHEWED up,it shouldnt be any where near the slide,you could be dragging it on the slide
     
  9. docj78

    docj78

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    Butch,

    Thank you for the explanation. Those scenarios make sense to me, as I didn't know the mechanics of it.

    To answer your questions: Yes. For all intensive purposes, I am new to pistol shootings, as I haven't shot handguns since i was in high school. Even then it was rare.

    The gun is stock, and I clean it well with non-chlorinated brake cleaner after every range trip(~200 rounds). Some disagree with its use, but i cleans AND DRIES very well, leaving no residue. Lube lightly w/remoil.

    I haven't had any training yet, but likely will once i become more familiar w/ the gun and pistol shooting basics. That's where this site comes in.

    You made the statement that a limpwrist only needs to happen once to cause a malfunction. This makes sense, but it seems then that if it happens once, it should happen every time, or at least very frequently with weak hand and/or loose grip/stance. I guess i could also try intentional loose/limp wristing. This way if it FTF's a lot, I'll have a valid and consistent "blame" when it happens on accident.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  10. bentbiker

    bentbiker

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    Dr J,

    You said that you shot 250 rounds last night. That is a lot of shooting for a pretty snappy cartridge. Lots of people report getting tired and not concentrating as much on providing a firm platform after a large number of shots. You might have the wrong idea of what limp wristing is -- it doesn't require a terribly weak grip, just anything less than a totally strong grip. Did your FTF occur well into the session by any chance?
     
  11. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    IMO, an occasional malfunction doesn't very often mean there is a gun problem, if it's broken, the malfunction will likely be a lot more than occasional.

    I'm not a fan of using the gun scrubber/brake cleaner sprays on a constant basis. It does a good job of removing all traces of oil and lubricants, but too much of a good thing may not be a good thing. A little lube isn't a bad thing on steel....not that you should oil it all the time, but you shouldn't remove the oil all the time.

    I'm also not a fan of RemOil, it's too thin to suit me, it seems to run all over too easily. I just use Outers or Hoppes.

    My normal Glock cleaning is pretty basic:
    [​IMG]


    There's some good info on how hard one should grip in this thread:
    https://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1148937&highlight=Ayoob
     
  12. glockhead13

    glockhead13

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    +1

    You might not know when it happens and then you look down and you hand is bleeding. You thumb could be rubbing on the slide. I have shoot hundreds of rounds and have only had my hand bleed when I hit the slide one time trying to use a flashlight in the dark while shooting.
     
  13. GLOCK MONSTER

    GLOCK MONSTER Guest

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    i had the same problem with my g23 at the range . But i foundout what was the problem ............ I had a bad magazine . Out of the 4 magazine i had with me only 1 magazine was not operating right . The feeder would get stuck or the spring seemed like it was bent and not pushing up . I looked at the empty magazine and pushed down on it and it would get stuck by an 1/8 of an inch from the top of the magazine . And when i used the other 3 magazines it was flawless & running like a champ .
     
  14. docj78

    docj78

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    I have read that faulty magazines are a common culprit. I marked the mag with witch I had the FTF last night, and proceeded to use it exclusively for the remainder of the evening (about 75 shots) and it was o.k. From some other magazine related threads, it seems that when it's the magazine, it happens as frequently as 1 or 2x/magazine.

    I will again address my grip, as Butch posted an interesting link to a thread about grip firmness. i had not been "squeezing" the grip with what i would consider a "crush" grip, or even a "very tight" one.

    Gonna give that a whirl tonight or tomorrow.
     
  15. GLOCK MONSTER

    GLOCK MONSTER Guest

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    keep us posted . Hope everything is all good !​
     
  16. DowntimeLA

    DowntimeLA

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    call doug at glock us, have him send you some 10# magazine springs

    your gun has 9# in it
     
  17. JBarbaresi

    JBarbaresi

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  18. voyager4520

    voyager4520

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  19. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    There are plenty of theoretical possibilities. There is only 1 that have seen on the range while training new and slightly experienced shooters over the past 20 years - limpwristing. A bad grip steals the recoil energy needed to operate the slide, causing a short cycling of the action so that, in the case of the FTF you describe, the slide doesn't go all the way back and is already closing before the magazine pushes the next round into position to feed properly. Go take a serious course taught by a knowledgeable instructor before you spend any more money on guns and ammo. Your rpoblems could easily be corrected in a day, if you are a good student.
     
  20. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    You grip a Glock, so that your thumb is resting on top of the slide stop? That's really not good by any standard. While your grip may only be bad enough for occasional limpwrist malfunctions, resting your thumb on the slide stop means, besides dragging it against the slide, you will cause the slide to fial to lock open when the magazine is empty. Again, get training on proper grip.

    Honestly, as little as you limpwrist, just moving your thumb somewhere closer to where it should be might cure the whole problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010