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Possible solutions to the BTF problems

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Deputy, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Deputy

    Deputy Millennium Member

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    Some possible causes to the BTF situation:

    The range facilities...If you are shooting at a range where you are inside a booth with walls and ceiling, that is a possible source of BTF.

    Type of shooting stance...there are two main shooting stances that folks use...

    The isosceles stance. This is with both arms extended directly in front of you and you are directly facing the target.

    The Weaver or modified Weaver. You are standing at a diagonal angle to the target and both arms are bent.

    Try each stance and see if it corrects the problem.

    Ammo....nope. People have fired thousands of different ammo types and it has been shown it has NO effect on BTF.
    --------------------------

    One thing people seem resistant to do is to talk to a gunsmith about the problem and then send it to him for a fix. I guess people are still swallowing the "Glock Perfection" propaganda and think only the factory has the answer. I would give the factory maybe two tries at fixing the problem. Then I would send it to a gunsmith. If the gunsmith fixes it, I would send the bill to Glock and demand they pay it. Good luck with that part. :rofl:
     
  2. DocWills

    DocWills

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    I agree but............

    Ammo causes most issues. The guns are built for hotter ammo than most see.

    Various lots of extractors are different.

    Slides are different.

    Springs are a constant variable.

    Mags are part of the ejection bounce.

    Shooters are the other issue that you hint to.

    There was a time when Glock did not produce guns at the rate they now do. That is a factor too.

    Mostly i bvelieve the ejection bounce is light ammo, oversprung in rsa and mags,shooter error.

    Im going into hiding now.:supergrin:
     

  3. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    But what about one handed, unsupported? If the gun won't function properly when fired weak hand only, it is pretty useless.

    I agree that there is an issue named "limp wristing" but I don't agree that it should make the weapon malfunction. What if "limp wristing" is all my least shot up arm can do?

    Richard
     
  4. Deputy

    Deputy Millennium Member

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    There was an extensive ammo test done in this thread and in many others.

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434728

    Doesn't seem to matter if it is standard pressure or +P or +P+. It still has problems.

    If the guns were built mainly or only to use extremely high pressure ammo, Glock would have shot itself in the foot. The Gen 3 and prior were able to handle hot ammo with no problems. Plus Glock would have stated "only recommended for extremely high pressure ammo" in the owners manual. They didn't. Now if you want to argue that the problems are due to the new recoil spring assembly and the attmept to reduce recoil, you may have some ground to stand on.

    I hate to say this, but you are gonna have to prove the rest of the list. The slides from Gen 3 and Gen 4 have been swapped and they both work.
    If it were just mags then people would have s0olved the problem a long time ago.
    Production demands. Maybe. But modern manufacturers use modern methods to keep up with demand. They don't increase production by slopping up on the guns.

    What STILL baffles me is the reluctance of Glock owners with problems searching out Glock gunsmiths to fix the problems. After sending the guns in to the factory twice, I would be searching for a competent Glock gunsmith and explain my problems to him. Instead, everyone wants to play amateur gunsmith and they spend a fortune on unknown fixes that may be making things worse.:shocked:
     
  5. Deputy

    Deputy Millennium Member

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    It has been documented that Glock suffers from limpwristitis.
    If you want a gun that fires while limpwristed or weak-handed, you must search elsewhere.
     
  6. Made in Austria

    Made in Austria

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    Yes, but too many Police officers all over the US use a Glock as their duty gun. What if one of them has to shoot his/her Glock one handed? The gun could/will fail if shot one handed. So, in my opinion a Glock is no good gun and is nothing more than a okay range gun and no dependable duty gun. Kind of like a cheap no-name brand .22 handgun.

    Newer Glocks are different than the older ones. Glock really @#$%!@ up lately there is no doubt. Don't get me wrong, I have a couple of gen4's and I'm happy with them, but many people are not happy with theirs, I can see that on the INTERENT and at my local shooting ranges.

    No wonder Colt got the 22 Million Dollar contract from the U.S. Marine Corps.

    Sorry for the bad news fanboyz
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  7. Sheepdog689

    Sheepdog689 NRA Life Member

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    Ummmm, we carry Glock 22's, we shoot (practice and qualification) one handed from the 3 yard line - double tap and a head shot - and from what I've seen in the thousands of rounds that our officers fire (I was a firearms instructor for a long time) they always went bang when the trigger got squeezed - even one handed. Cant the pistol over to about a 45 degree angle, not total gangsta, but close, and have at it.
     
  8. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    I agree that my Gen 3 G21SF will work perfectly when fired weak hand only. No problems whatsoever. Even limpwristing, the gun cycles fine and all this using my rather mild reloads.

    I'm not certain that the new Gen 4 9mm guns will work that way. It's too bad that Glock has this new reputation. I had been thinking of buying a Gen 3 17 & 34 for IDPA competition but I don't think I want any of the current production guns.

    Richard
     
  9. Made in Austria

    Made in Austria

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    I am sure your G22 works great. Many newer gen3's and gen4 9mm and .40's don't. I have seen my own 9mm and G23 gen4's fail. I also had a bloody forehead from a .40 casing which hit me right in the middle of my forhead a couple of times. I have also seen a lot of frustrated Glock owners at the ranges I shoot, most of them had gen4's.

    Just because your G22 and your colleagues G22 work great doesn't mean all Glocks work flawlessly! I was talking about the newer made Glocks! I know that the older ones are known to be very reliable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  10. glockenturm

    glockenturm

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    Limpwristing and weak hand shooting are two vastly different things.

    Standing like a statue in a confined indoor range is not conducive to learning how to shoot or handle a Glock in a defensive manner. Find a range that you can shoot freely on or take a tactical class. Slow firing with a range nazi breathing down your back counting the rounds per minute you fire is a waste of time and ammo.

    Message sent from Texas!
     
  11. TTex

    TTex Cannon Fodder

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    The thing I really like about Glocks is they are simple. I mean you can take the whole danged thing apart with a single tool. So if I can take it down myself and replace all the parts why am I going to take it to someone who is just going to charge me labor? I would hardly consider a $15 dollar trigger housing a fortune, but would be pretty upset over the $XX.00 an hour labor charge, and on top of that. Besides, the factory seems to be having a problem resolving the issue, whats gonna make some gunsmith somewhere suddenly have the answer? Now if I wanted my Glock stippled or something like that I say that requires more skill to get right, but for just tearing it down and replacing a part I have a punch and can accomplish that, no need to pay a gunsmith a fortune so he can replace parts that may OR MAY NOT fix the problem.
     
  12. DocWills

    DocWills

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    Springs are a complicated matter and Glock has traditionally used the 9mm platform to make the 40. No more. All factory engineering now looks at the 40 first.

    The redesign now is the nicest 40 you can imagine. Better design, springs and frame reshaped a bit and stronger.

    The problem is the 9mm is set up for hot european ammo/foreign ammo/us self defense ammo. Glock sends you a nice new lighter spring for the plinking that they never understood.

    The problems have to be isolated on an individual gun.
    I would first fire single round of ammo noting the ejection.
    Second i would load a mag with one round and try it, then two, then three.ammo bounce is caused by an over sprung gun, solution load more powerful ammo or change spring.
    If ammo doesnt bounce on a single round but does with mag in you must alter the geometry of the exractor not ejector.Or load more powerful ammo.

    Im with and involved in running a lot of guns, we arent having the issues with glock reported here.When we do get a malfunction with target ammo we fire with full loads to test it.

    I spent too many years with a 1911 to swallow all the internet hype. I think there is a massive plan to sell Glock parts or replacement guns.

    I suggest everyone ask why they bought the gun. Try it with the ammo you need to use for that purpose. Alter the gun as needed to shoot the ammo you want.

    Altering the springs should be the first thing you do for target ammo if it malfunctions and the last for self defense.
     
  13. cadillacguns

    cadillacguns Millennium Member

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    I've known it for a long time, when shooting my Glocks in an indoor range, I expect a shell or two in the face from bouncing off the stall walls, took my Glocks with me on vacation to Michigan last week, shot in the wide open outdoors and never had a piece of brass bounce off me. I wonder how many glockers getting what they think of as a bad pistol, are being struck while indoors!?!
     
  14. Sheepdog689

    Sheepdog689 NRA Life Member

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    I qualified with my Gen 4 model 19 for off duty carry it that worked OK.
     
  15. Made in Austria

    Made in Austria

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    No, unfortunately not. Some get struck outdoors as well.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KySpNpwjdjw"]Glock 19 Ejection Issues - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGVk5yYu3Kg"]Generation 4 Glock 17 Malfunctions. - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  16. Made in Austria

    Made in Austria

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    The second video shows clearly that erratic ejection can and will lead to stovepipes and other malfunctions. Such a gun should not be used as a duty nor as a self-defence gun! It's okay for the range though.

    Here is a third one: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGpbLgn0Bpk"]Glock 19 Gen 3 Ejection Issues - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  17. ADK_40GLKr

    ADK_40GLKr Adirondacker with a Glock

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    I'm getting about 10% BTF (1 per 10 rd mag.) from my gen 3 G17 with 115 gr UMC's. This is outdoors with no stalls or walls. I wear a cap and glasses so it's not a big deal.

    I've been filing down the recommended areas on one of my LCI extractors, also using a .40 extractor, and an OEM as is, and all 3 seem to perform the same.

    Next time out, 124 gr Lawman to see if there's any difference.
     
  18. glockenturm

    glockenturm

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    This is why I hate when people post videos of problems on Youtube. No info on when gun was made, type of ammo, any mods that may have been done, etc. No pertinent info just "oh, poor me!"

    Well here's my opinion based on what I saw. "Mine all work fine. Sucks to be you!"

    Message sent from Texas!
     
  19. Made in Austria

    Made in Austria

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    It doesn't matter when it was made or what ammo was used because it shouldn't matter because it's a Glock! Those guns don't work properly, thats a fact and Glock still doesen't come out to take a stand. I bet its hurts when you watch those videos, right fanboy? Now go and have some Kool-Aid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  20. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    BINGO!!!


    Of course they don't want to go to a Glock armourer as then they would have to finally man up and admit that they are LIMPWRISTING or shooting garbage ammo!! :wavey:

    Ask yourself an even BIGGER question: why are all these haters still posting/whining here day after day after day? They're like orphans as I'm sure REAL shooters avoid them in person at their local ranges. Lord!! Can you imagine listening to this crap IN PERSON every time you went to the range??!! :upeyes:

    :violin::deadhorse::puking: