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Possible fraudulent trader on-line, avoid muddywater23

Discussion in 'Smart Shopper' started by Budshooter, Oct 12, 2003.

  1. Budshooter

    Budshooter Rhythmic Demon

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    It appears that we possibly have a liar and thief among us, and I would like to warn other members before anyone else loses any money or equipment to this person.

    As noted in other threads, I listed a holster for sale, and also put it on the GT Holster library thread, if anyone wanted to try it before buying it. I was contacted by a member, muddywater23, who wanted to try it. He had a friend send $5.00 through PayPal, since he didn't have an account. I shipped the holsters out via Priority Mail on 9/26. Delivery confirmation says that they arrived on 9/28. When muddywater23 was contacted on 10/2, he said that he liked the holsters, and would send money in "a day or two" if he decided to keep them. Since then I have tried to contact him a number of times, and he has been on-line here at GT, but has not responded to my e-mails.

    I've noted on some of his offers for equipment or trades that I'd been ripped off, and have been notified by others who've also been taken by him. I'm starting this thread not only to warn others about this person, but to allow others who have bad dealings with this person to list them here, so that we can have all of these complaints in one place. It has been mentioned that he may have had some reason to leave town, or had some emergency and not been able to contact any of us. If that is the case, I will issue a retraction as soon as this issue is resolved. I have e-mailed him directly, as well as leaving PM's here on GT, but have had no response.

    This person's off-line name is:
    Eric Sanchez
    49960 Burning Bush Ct
    Shelby Twp., MI 48315
    muddywater23@hotmail.com

    I've not contacted him by telephone, but have been given his numbers by another GT member. If anyone needs them to resolve soured deals, please write, and I will send them to you.

    I've had only good dealings up until this on GT, and am convinced that other than this person abusing our trust, that ours is a trustworthy community. I hope to keep it this way by warning off others from potentially dangerous transactions.
     
  2. UrbanKnight

    UrbanKnight

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    I am also out a new black galco OWB Sig 226 paddle holster to him.

    Same problems as Bud.

    I may be calling the local PD to get a case going tomorrow, or we could all start filing the internet fraud board
    http://www.fraud.org/info/contactnfic.htm

    UK
     

  3. Furant

    Furant Millennium Member

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    Thankfully I did not get ripped off by him, but as soon as I posted about my Left-handed Sidearmor, he sent me an e-mail that he wanted to try it and make sure it was comfy.

    I would suspect if the holsters you guys loaned him weren't left-handed, that it was a complete scam.

    Joey
     
  4. GlocksterJeff

    GlocksterJeff Glock Armorer

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    I was going to buy a G19 magazine from him a couple of weeks ago. He insisted that I send my money to some business Paypal account and he would not take a postal money order. Nor would he supply an address or phone number. I cancelled the deal. For all I know, Mr. Sanchez is quite honest, but I did not feel comfortable.
     
  5. SoaringKestrel

    SoaringKestrel My Buddy

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    I also sent him a left-handed Sidearmor with 4 additional belt loop attachments of various cants. He told me in his first email that he would most likely buy it because he knew what they were like. He also told me after receiving it that he liked it and would be "sending payment soon." I told him to take his time in deciding. A week or so later I tried to contact him several times over several days with no response.

    He seemed very upfront and polite. He turned down my offer to loan him a Wilderness belt, so I think (hope) he's on the up and up. The future will tell.
     
  6. yosuthnmasa

    yosuthnmasa

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    I also think I've been taken by "muddywater". I responded to a WTS/WTT add for a G23 Hi-Cap FML magazine. I emailed a response to his thread and told him I had a G19 NFML magazine I would trade him along with $10. He emailed back and wanted pictures. I asked for offline information to make sure the deal went down properly. We had a short chat, exchanged pictures, and my mag was sent towards the end of the September with D.C. He also supposedly sent mine the same day with D.C. Needless to say, the package got almost to my house, according to tracking, but was sent back to the Shipper for no apparent reason. Postmaster said shipper would have message on box. After repeated emails and phone messages, I finally got an email last week from Muddywater23, which said the P.O. sent it back because of a wrong address and he would try and get it out the beginning of this week. I sent the address to him again, which was the same address I sent the first time, and have not heard back from him. No emails or phone calls have been made to me confirming the mistake on his end.

    With the overwhelming number of respones about Muddywater23, I too have suspicions about the validity of our transaction. And the wait begins!
     
  7. Budshooter

    Budshooter Rhythmic Demon

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    Shortly after starting this thread last evening, I sent an e-mail to the "unreachable" muddywater23, letting him know that there are several of us who feel ripped off by him. I of course got no reply; that's in keeping with his MO. However, I did check my PM tracking tonight, which shows that he did get online to check out what's being said here about him (see attached image). So much for him being out of town and unreachable.

    Also, I got a letter from his PayPal patsy, who said that she can't notify him because he's gone, but will be back Friday, and will get in touch with me then. I'm already turnin' blue from holding my breath waiting. ;9 She's also at a hotmail account, so it's probably him under an assumed name.

    I'll keep y'all informed of any news.
     
  8. striderglock

    striderglock HVACR

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    It's a damn shame some jackass would take advantage of a nice GT member who would send out a holster before payment so he can try it out! I hope there are some members near muddywater that can have some "words" with him.

    I've noticed when A-holes like this rip folks off they usually follow the same pattern. If you look at his profile you'll see he hasn't been here long, low number of posts and his posts are all in the for sale ads. His price on the G23 drop free mags was $65, folks that's just too low. I remember the last G23 mag scam was at the same price, he took money for around 13 mags!

    Scammers rarely will send pictures. If the seller won't give you his contact information that's a huge red flag. It would be a good idea to talk with the seller on the phone and have a home address(not business).

    I'm sorry for everybody's loss and hope you all catch up with him in a dark alley.
     
  9. fraglord

    fraglord

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    Well, well. After 4 years and many, many internet transactions I finally got burned. I sent this guy two G19 10 round mags and he was supposed to trade me two G21 10 round mags. He claimed to have sent them priority mail on Tuesday 10-7, I should have had them by Friday at the latest. He has my mags by now, and of course will not respond to any of my emails. The address he gave me is:

    Eric Sanchez
    532 French St
    Adrian, MI 48315

    :(
     
  10. UrbanKnight

    UrbanKnight

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    Well, it seems as if we are also address hopping> Isent it to the same addy as Bud, but you have a different addy.

    Eric Sanchez
    49960 Burning Bush Ct
    Shelby Twp., MI 48315

    UK
     
  11. yosuthnmasa

    yosuthnmasa

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    I'm in the same boat! I did get his home information, cell phone, home phone, email address, and called and talked with him for a few minutes to try and make sure the deal went down straight. He was the one that was quick to recommend Priority with Delivery Confirmation. The next day I got the delivery confirmation number, tracked it all the way to my town, and it turned around and went all the way back to his address. What else can you do? This is the address he sent me:

    Eric Sanchez
    49960 Burning Bush Ct.
    Shelby Twp., MI 48315
     
  12. Mud

    Mud

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    OK i have had the oppisite

    maybe cuz i only live 30 min from him but

    i sent him a desantias Speed scabbord didnt hear from him for a few days he told me he wasnt sure if he liked it

    then i got it back priority mail

    Eric Sanchez
    49960 Burning Bush Ct
    Shelby Twp., MI 48315
     
  13. SoaringKestrel

    SoaringKestrel My Buddy

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    I'm having a hard time accepting that I may have been snookered! I'm curious if all of these things happend in the same time frame or if it's an on-going thing. Let's compare notes:

    Sept. 20: muddywater23 contacted me directly through email (not Private Mail).

    (Additional Info.: We exchanged several emails. He asked to borrow a IWB Sidearmor and 4 different belt loops, saying that he knew what the holster was like and would most likely buy it. But he wanted to try different cants, including cross-draw. He turned down my offer to loan him a Wilderness belt and additional belt loops for the holster.)

    Sept. 22: I mailed the holster & belt loops. (This was the Monday following the Saturday that he contacted me.)

    Sept. 26: I emailed him to find out if he received it. He said he did received it but hasn't had a chance to try it.

    Sept. 27: He said he likes it and (quote) "looks like i'll be sending payment soon." (His last email to me.)

    Sept. 29: I asked him which can't he liked best and to let me know when he made his mind up for sure if he was buying it. (No response.)

    Oct. 4: Asked him what he decided. (No response.)

    Oct 6: Asked him what he decided and to please contact me. (No response.)
     
  14. BarkinDog

    BarkinDog Millennium Member

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    Looks like I lucked out, he contacted me about a trade of a RH G36 Sidearmor holster for my RH G30 Sidearmor. I asked for a phone number that I could verify was in his name, never got a reply from my two e mails.
     
  15. UrbanKnight

    UrbanKnight

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    My contact initiated via PM Sept 23rd, shipped holster Sept 25th, received it Sept 29th.

    I recontacted him to follow up on October 7th, and he replied Oct 7th asking me again how much I wanted for it.

    No response since.

    UK
     
  16. Mud

    Mud

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    being that i live in MI i could prolly find his number in the PHONE BOOK PM me if intrested
     
  17. UrbanKnight

    UrbanKnight

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    As soon as my workload frees up, here is where I am going

    Shelby Township Police Dept
    52700 Van Dyke Ave # 1, Shelby Township, MI 48316
    Phone: (586) 731-0896

    If I am the first to call, i will get a case number and contact name for the case, I would ask if anyone beats me to it, to do the same, so we can put all of our eggs in on basket.

    UK
     
  18. Budshooter

    Budshooter Rhythmic Demon

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    Initial contact of him asking for loan of holster, shipping funds sent by his friend: 9/25
    Holster shipped via Priority Mail (with tracking): 9/26
    Tracking confirms it arriving: 9/28
    Contacted him to see if it works for him, and was he purchasing or sending back. He replies wil be doing one or the other "in a day or two": 10/2
    Numerous messages sent since.

    That's the last that I've heard from him. I did send an e-mail directly to his e-mail acct, letting him know of this thread, and supplying a link. He clicked in to GT within the hour, per my message tracking, but hasn't responded to me. I also obtained his phone # from yosuthnmasa, and left him a message asking him to call.

    He is getting on GT since I e-mailed him directly. Message tracking shows him last on GT this morning at 9:45 (see attached). Now we need to wait until Friday, per his PayPal friend, so that he can answer when he gets in to town.

    We'll see. ;Q
     
  19. uafgrad

    uafgrad

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    DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I think I got hosed also. Between 9-28 and 9-30 we had 11 e-mails and a phone call confirming our deal. Our deal was for my 2 NDF G19 mags for his 1 DF G22 mag +$40. Well my package made it there in time. His package shows that it was delievered at my post office (they automatically scan any package that they think will fit into the box), though it never made it to my box. They told me that it is possible the wrong address was on the package and it was returned to sender. I have sent numerous e-mails to mr. Sanchez asking for his assistance. I have told him that all I want from him is help getting the money order re-done, still he will not reply. It looks as though he is pulling a scam.
    Mr. Sanchez, make this right and I will forget ever doing the deal with you. Don't do anything and I will do everything I can to make life hell for you, including filing a criminal complaint.
    Do the right thing.

    Christopher Dean
     
  20. yosuthnmasa

    yosuthnmasa

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    uafgrad,

    What happened to you is the same thing that happened to me. He actually sent my magazine out for the trade, but when it got to my city (with an intentional wrong address on it)it got instantly sent back to Mr. Sanchez's residence. So, for the week I was waiting on it, he satisfied my intuition while scamming other people who hadn't spoken up yet. His pattern seems to be the same with those of us who traded or bought magazines, and it seems to be the same with those who sent out holsters. Same damn ploy! Boy sometimes I wish there was a way we could avoid scandals like this. You know, we watch it happen over and over and hope we're not the next to get burned. This time, though, we were. We've got to be able to come up with a system, along with the moderators, to prevent this from happening.