So I took a friend hunting for the first time on Saturday (afternoon of last day of the season) and I have an observation. I'm still relatively new at hunting myself. I can easily influenced by sales pitches for things like, sentless soap, charcoal impregnated underwear, deer scents, calls, etc. I've never followed through on it, but usually these people are more experienced than I am so I can't help but listen. So at about 1pm I took him to one of the properties I have access to and sat him down on the ground at what the landowner refers to as the "magic rock"... because someone kills something there literally every year it's been hunted. I spritzed a couple of trees with racoon urine, and went off to another part of the proerty that doesn't get hunted much, but has a lot of deer sign. So... my friend actually bagged a 6-pointer about 15 minutes before the end of the season. Not a great shot, but the deer did die, and he did find it. He was to be commended for having the patience to wait for a better shot than he had when he first saw the thing. I think he waited about 5 minutes for his shot. He probably hit it just forward of the left shoulder and it exited throguh the right shoulder... perhaps puncturing one lung. It ran about 100 yards and took about a minute more to die when he found it. Still a kill is a kill. For reference, he was using a M1A1 with a Leuopold scope on it (not owning a hunting rifle)... 180 gr corelok. Needless to say, he didn't do anything special, and he even did a few things wrong. Especially, he didn't sit still because he was cold, so he got up often to warm up. When he had to go to the bathroom, he wandered away from his spot instead of getting it done quickly. I suppose he was quiet. So the moral of this story for all those folks who are new, or are having trouble getting a deer... position/location seems to be much more important than technology when it comes to bagging a deer. I count myself lucky that my mentor is of the minimalist variety and has saved me a buttload of money, but I've still managed to be successfull in my 3 seasons. My long-run average so far is a deer for every 3-4 days hunted and that's only because I had a bad year last year with 1 deer in 10 days hunted.