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Horselover Fat
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The nonpartisan Pew poll just confirmed the existence of the so-called “Ferguson effect”: 86 percent of cops polled say all the national controversy over police killings of civilians has made their jobs tougher.

The St. Louis police chief coined the term after the shooting of Michael Brown, to describe the tendency of officers to back off from proactive policing in the wake of widespread protests. The Manhattan Institute’s Heather Mac Donald and others point to the Ferguson effect to help explain the rise in violent crime in many US cities.

Pew polled some 8,000 police officers on race relations, morale and reform last year — with most of it done before the assassinations of cops in Dallas and Baton Rouge.

Key findings:
  •  93 percent of officers say they’ve grown more concerned about their safety.
  •  76 percent are more now reluctant to use force when necessary.
  •  75 percent believe interactions between police and blacks have become more tense.
  • 72 percent say they’re more reluctant to stop and question suspicious-looking people.
  •  67 percent report being verbally abused.
Of course, none of this justifies any police abuse, nor delegitimizes any given protest.

But it does flag the perils of a rush to judgment — as in the Ferguson case itself, where the Obama Justice Department’s investigation fully confirmed the account of the officer who shot Brown, and shredded the “Hands up, don’t shoot” claim that Brown was an innocent victim.

Luckily for this town, the NYPD has kept bringing crime down, despite the national trend, and local challenges from the death of Eric Garner to the City Council’s ongoing efforts to handcuff law enforcement.

New York City government doesn’t have much to teach the rest of urban America, but policing remains the standout exception.

https://nypost.com/2017/01/16/poll-of-cops-shows-the-ferguson-effect-is-all-too-real/
 

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It's real. I can see it in our area. Administrative types are all too happy to throw officers under the bus to prevent any controversy. The boss even told us at one point to do what ever we can to stop complaints. Then a few months later is wondering why traffic / pedestrian stops have dropped by almost 90 %. Arrests are down because of that too. But on the other side of the coin crime is starting to skyrocket because we aren't arresting people for little things now so they continue on to commit burglaries, robberies, asaults, sex crimes, and murder.

This is Obama's legacy. All he had to do during the Ferguson incident was say to wait for the investigation to be completed and to tell people to obey the law and NONE of this would have happened
 

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The nonpartisan Pew poll just confirmed the existence of the so-called “Ferguson effect”: 86 percent of cops polled say all the national controversy over police killings of civilians has made their jobs tougher.

The St. Louis police chief coined the term after the shooting of Michael Brown, to describe the tendency of officers to back off from proactive policing in the wake of widespread protests. The Manhattan Institute’s Heather Mac Donald and others point to the Ferguson effect to help explain the rise in violent crime in many US cities.

Pew polled some 8,000 police officers on race relations, morale and reform last year — with most of it done before the assassinations of cops in Dallas and Baton Rouge.

Key findings:
  •  93 percent of officers say they’ve grown more concerned about their safety.
  •  76 percent are more now reluctant to use force when necessary.
  •  75 percent believe interactions between police and blacks have become more tense.
  • 72 percent say they’re more reluctant to stop and question suspicious-looking people.
  •  67 percent report being verbally abused.
Of course, none of this justifies any police abuse, nor delegitimizes any given protest.

But it does flag the perils of a rush to judgment — as in the Ferguson case itself, where the Obama Justice Department’s investigation fully confirmed the account of the officer who shot Brown, and shredded the “Hands up, don’t shoot” claim that Brown was an innocent victim.

Luckily for this town, the NYPD has kept bringing crime down, despite the national trend, and local challenges from the death of Eric Garner to the City Council’s ongoing efforts to handcuff law enforcement.

New York City government doesn’t have much to teach the rest of urban America, but policing remains the standout exception.

https://nypost.com/2017/01/16/poll-of-cops-shows-the-ferguson-effect-is-all-too-real/
While I may agree with you in general, you are dead wrong about "nor delegitimizes any given protest". When BLM is marching on the streets and shouting "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" while the police are protecting them and in ear shot of them is a crock of 5hit.

The Ferguson affect is an absolute fact and will get worse over time. Why should we risk our lives for communities who hate us? Nothing will change until their are so many crimes committed against people who used to live in "safe" neighborhoods that they beg for the police to become more assertive, put a lot more police on the street and demand better working conditions for police. We used to think of the community as wolves (criminals), sheepdogs (us) and civilians. Wolves were not permitted to "f" with civilians under any circumstances. Why should we engage when we are surrounded by enemies? Police administration, politicians, bureaucrats, millennials, criminals and an uninformed populace are all against the police now. America has been hating on the police for decades and Americas chickens have come home to roost. Cops are retiring and resigning at record numbers now. There are a lot better ways to make a living than working crappy hours in a deadly environment. The police are vastly out numbered in every since of the word. When the few people that are police start backing off it shows. When people start complaining about the police now I just shrug my shoulders and don't even engage in conversation. America is getting exactly what it deserves regarding the police. Good luck, there are fewer and fewer people applying for police jobs. This is working out perfectly.
 

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The truly sad aspect is the good" people living in crime ridden areas and who could certainly use and/or benefit good proactive policing will be the ones to suffer. (My assumption being there ARE good people stuck in hellholes. I could be wrong)

a.) Should they stay "good" and call LEOs in to resolve something negative or criminal, problems ensue.

b.) Should they remain silent to ensure no retribution, problems ensue.

c.) Should they take matters into their own hands as active and (still) "good" people and eliminate the "bad" actors, problems ensue.

Personally, I think a healthy combination of a. & c. are needed. But whaddaIknow? Politicians will then throw everyone under the "I gotta do this to get re-elected" bus.

So, it may be that the politicians are the real ner-do-wells here (political thuggery aka small tyranny) and THEY control the LEO purse strings...
 

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The truly sad aspect is the good" people living in crime ridden areas and who could certainly use and/or benefit good proactive policing will be the ones to suffer. (My assumption being there ARE good people stuck in hellholes. I could be wrong)

a.) Should they stay "good" and call LEOs in to resolve something negative or criminal, problems ensue.

b.) Should they remain silent to ensure no retribution, problems ensue.

c.) Should they take matters into their own hands as active and (still) "good" people and eliminate the "bad" actors, problems ensue.

Personally, I think a healthy combination of a. & c. are needed. But whaddaIknow? Politicians will then throw everyone under the "I gotta do this to get re-elected" bus.

So, it may be that the politicians are the real ner-do-wells here (political thuggery aka small tyranny) and THEY control the LEO purse strings...
People elect politicians then most consider they have done their duty, sit back and complain about politicians or the police or both. That's cool with me, I really don't care anymore. Police sign up not knowing all that is really entailed in a career in law enforcement. A career in law enforcement has countless drawbacks. That is why less than 50% of people who graduate from a police academy retire as a police officer.

There is a short honeymoon period for most cops. In 3-5 years the "fun" has worn off and many go another direction. Large police departments now have SGT's with 3 years of experience. It takes five years to make a cop.

As far as your scenarios of a, b & c:
a) Cops know ahead of time most people don't like them even when they call them. It amazed me when people who would talk 5hit constantly would call the cops when their crap was stolen. Here is a news flash. Most police departments don't have the resources to investigate almost any property crimes. Nobody is going to look for your stolen car stereo or lawnmower or whatever. As soon as that report is done that's it. If you're lucky someone might enter the serial number if you know it into a pawn shop search. Nobody's "dusting" for prints and sending anything to a crime lab. Cops love it when you call because you and your neighbor can't get along or your kid won't clean their room or better yet when you say I don't want to file a complaint I just want "x" to stop happening. Feel free to call all you want, but don't expect too much. The resources aren't there and the cop already has 15 other cases they are waiting to write up. Many police departments can't even send cops to a lot of calls. You have to file an online report or phone report. However bad you think it is, it's much worse.

b) Remain silent. That's up to you. The problem probably isn't going to get better either way.

c) Take matters into your own hands. Probably not goint to work out very well.

The only thing that works are more resources and community involvement. We call it Community Oriented Policing. The community has to get involved which requires personal time and expense, but it is your community. Communities have to remove graffiti, clean up neighborhoods, take care of property, make it harder for criminals to be successful and cooperate with and support the police. If people don't wan't to do this nothing is going to change. Cops are basically reactionary by the very nature of the work. As it gets worse and worse for cops they are going to be less and less likely to initiate contacts with the public and especially criminals. Think about this; why should a cop engage when they see a car full of gangsters or someone acting suspicious at the back of your property or home. Cops are being ambushed constantly now. Why risk it when nobody cares.

I know this was a long post, but politicians and bureaucrats are not going to solve anything, they never do. If they could, the inner cities would not continue to get worse. The only people that can solve this are the citizens, but they have just been sitting by for decades watching it get worse and worse and blaming it on the cops. Now America is getting the policing they have wanted. I hope they enjoy it. Crime is coming to your neighborhood soon if it's not already there.
 

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PSO Survivor. currently in NW Georgia
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I have to agree with all that has been posted...I think until the needle moves back off the peg, more and more officers are going to just answer their calls and do little/nothing more. This is a perfectly understandable human emotion for folks working in an environment where they are hated and in some jurisdictions, hunted as well.
I was blessed to have done my 25 during a time 70's-2000 when respect for the police was beginning to wane but was still the majority opinion.
I feel so sorry for the new troops today who are trying to do good and make a career out of LE in a very tough time...no wonder recruitment is down in almost every demographic.
I continue to say...this is a "Culture" and it starts at the top...the proverbial buck stops with BHO...the damage he has wrought on America in general and LE in particular, will be felt for a long time. I hope/pray PE Trump can restore some respect to LE and can heal some wounds in the inner cities.
 

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Just wait a decade or so. It will get so much worse as current police officers retire or quit, and they are replaced by God only knows who! I mean really, who the hell would want to be a cop today?! Not like it is a profession that has attracted the best and the brightest anyway, just with the danger and low pay, but NOW I cannot imagine anyone wanting to enter this line of work. Scary to think about.
 

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This can all be laid at the feet of that worthless governor Jay Nixon. Probably why there isn't one democrat in the executive branch after the last election.
 

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Spreading lies and rumors has consequences. George Zimmerman, the "white Hispanic" and "hands up, don't shoot"... I lay blame squarely on the liberal media elites. As a consequence of their journalistic malpractice, police now avoid areas they use to patrol and the number of arrests has dropped. The result is a rise in crime and a rise in murders. You only have to look at Chicago to understand the results.
 

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Spreading lies and rumors has consequences. George Zimmerman, the "white Hispanic" and "hands up, don't shoot"... I lay blame squarely on the liberal media elites. As a consequence of their journalistic malpractice, police now avoid areas they use to patrol and the number of arrests has dropped. The result is a rise in crime and a rise in murders. You only have to look at Chicago to understand the results.
They also have to take blame of the millions of dollars
damage and the lives lost.

GO TRUMP
 

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Horselover Fat
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Discussion Starter #14
I believe we are entering a new day with Trump. This crap is going to come to a head pretty quickly, and I do not think he'll be folding like cheap suit, as so many other "politicians" have. He needs to bring the hammer down, using every Federal agency he has under him. It is going to be a gigantic task to undo what has been lost over the last 8 years.
 

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I believe we are entering a new day with Trump. This crap is going to come to a head pretty quickly, and I do not think he'll be folding like cheap suit, as so many other "politicians" have. He needs to bring the hammer down, using every Federal agency he has under him. It is going to be a gigantic task to undo what has been lost over the last 8 years.
Snerd,

I agree with most of what you are saying, however this has been going on for decades and is now rapidly coming to a head. Obama has just been trying to put the icing on the cake and intentionally betray America. Why else would he commute the sentences of traitors and terrorist along with the countless other things he has intentionally done to damage America?

There are not enough federal law enforcement agencies to make a difference. The DOJ is busy hammering the Chicago PD right now and their murder rate is skyrocketing. The DOJ is a giant bureaucracy full of career bureaucrats. Of course there are a lot of people who are trying to do the right thing in the DOJ, but at the end of the day they are ran by politicians out of DC. DC is 92% democrat. Don't put too much faith in the National Guard either. They are not LEO's and definitely don't have the training or experience to deal with an out of control society. How effective were they in Katrina? The National Guard is staffed by "weekend warriors". They have 9-5 jobs. If the poo really does hit the fan do you think they are ALL going to show up? Nope. A lot of New Orleans cops walked off the job during Katrina and never came back.

The police and the government can't fix what's wrong with America. Only the citizenry can make a change and the only people taking to the street are the left wing wackos. In many big cities the cops are ordered not to engage rioters who are throwing bottles and rocks (deadly weapons) at the cops and burning cars.

I believe (but I only speak for myself), there will be no change until the right takes to the streets and stands along side of the police. Some will think this is a whacko statement, but I don't care. The left owns Hollywood, almost all of the media and control the least physical property in the entire Country. But, every time you turn on the TV it appears they are the majority and have the only answers.

The left has to be crushed figuratively and literally. Figuratively, by countering their propaganda machine and literally, by physically taking our streets and communities back from the scourge of criminals and rioters.

The left is not stupid. They are trying to get the state to allow felons including those in prison to vote in Florida. If that happens, Florida will never go red again. If it happened during this election, Trump would not be POTUS tomorrow. We are up against it. Look how many places let illegal aliens (undocumented democrats) get a drivers license. Do you think they aren't voting now?

The citizenry must stand up now and make a difference.
 

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Horselover Fat
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Discussion Starter #16
Snerd,

I agree with most of what you are saying, however this has been going on for decades and is now rapidly coming to a head. Obama has just been trying to put the icing on the cake and intentionally betray America. Why else would he commute the sentences of traitors and terrorist along with the countless other things he has intentionally done to damage America?

There are not enough federal law enforcement agencies to make a difference. The DOJ is busy hammering the Chicago PD right now and their murder rate is skyrocketing. The DOJ is a giant bureaucracy full of career bureaucrats. Of course there are a lot of people who are trying to do the right thing in the DOJ, but at the end of the day they are ran by politicians out of DC. DC is 92% democrat. Don't put too much faith in the National Guard either. They are not LEO's and definitely don't have the training or experience to deal with an out of control society. How effective were they in Katrina? The National Guard is staffed by "weekend warriors". They have 9-5 jobs. If the poo really does hit the fan do you think they are ALL going to show up? Nope. A lot of New Orleans cops walked off the job during Katrina and never came back.

The police and the government can't fix what's wrong with America. Only the citizenry can make a change and the only people taking to the street are the left wing wackos. In many big cities the cops are ordered not to engage rioters who are throwing bottles and rocks (deadly weapons) at the cops and burning cars.

I believe (but I only speak for myself), there will be no change until the right takes to the streets and stands along side of the police. Some will think this is a whacko statement, but I don't care. The left owns Hollywood, almost all of the media and control the least physical property in the entire Country. But, every time you turn on the TV it appears they are the majority and have the only answers.

The left has to be crushed figuratively and literally. Figuratively, by countering their propaganda machine and literally, by physically taking our streets and communities back from the scourge of criminals and rioters.

The left is not stupid. They are trying to get the state to allow felons including those in prison to vote in Florida. If that happens, Florida will never go red again. If it happened during this election, Trump would not be POTUS tomorrow. We are up against it. Look how many places let illegal aliens (undocumented democrats) get a drivers license. Do you think they aren't voting now?

The citizenry must stand up now and make a difference.
Well, you put it so much more eloquently that I ever could. Truer words were never spoken!
 

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This was and is our last chance to save America. Trump seems to get it. He said all the right things during the campaign, and refused to kowtow to the Only Black Lives Matter crowd, insisting that All Lives Matter. The fact that the Dolt-Left has a problem with that phrase is quite telling.
 
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