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point shooting

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by misunderestimated, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. misunderestimated

    misunderestimated

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    Whats the thoughts ?

    Was shown how to point shoot today,

    I was shocked how acurate it was

    I found it to be very uncomfortable as I never put my finger in the trigger gaurd until I had my sight picture .Yet today I was taking up my trigger slack before I even had my gun fully exstended

    My brother (retired NYPD) used to always shoot this way and I never understood how it could be acurate
     
  2. cysoto

    cysoto Gone Shooting!

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  3. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    It's a tool that's effective within its intended envelope of space, time and body position.

    Will hard front sight focus and surprise trigger break work at the same distances? Sure. Will an index like "metal and meat" do it faster and over a more dynamic range of body movement? Absolutely.

    Can a four-count drawstroke get you into position to fire at short range? Sure. Will the index that comes from "Elbow Up, Elbow Down" do it faster? Absolutely.
     
  4. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    It could be the only thing available when SHTF. However, if you can use the sights then employ them
     
  5. Dreamaster

    Dreamaster

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    I can't even understand the logic that some people are opposed to point shooting.

    Make sure your grip is such that the barrel of the gun aligns with your arm. Gabe Suarez recommends a "half homey" tilt to the weapon, because by doing so if your finger is off the trigger you are literally finger pointing right at your target, put your finger on the trigger and pull and you're probably going to hit it.

    The person with the skillz to point shoot accurately while on the move is going to have a much better chance at winning in an SD situation.
     
  6. rvrctyrngr

    rvrctyrngr Senior Moment

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    Well said, Sam.
     
  7. threefeathers

    threefeathers Scouts Out

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    More distance, need for a better sight picture.
     
  8. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    Happens to a lot of folks. These days point shooting has been recognized and accepted by many as a viable and effective part of the shooting paradigm. 20 years ago many instructors (some of whom now have jumped on the PS wagon) would claim that it was not needed, did not work, etc. Took a lot of talking to finally get it recognized again, and we all owe a bit of thanks to some guys who kept the flame in spite of constant criticism. Welcome to the PS croowd!
     
  9. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    To "understand the logic" you might talk to Gabe about that, as he was one of the most outspoken critics of point shooting for several years.
     
  10. Dreamaster

    Dreamaster

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    ROTFL!! Isn't it funny how the world turns?

    I don't know the guy personally, but I own the Die Less Often series and am pondering getting Gabe's "Advanced Gun Fighting" DVD... I'm glad he's seen the light.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ykmchwOgqE
     
  11. misunderestimated

    misunderestimated

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    Thanks for the input everyone

    As I said before I find it uncomfortable as its against every thing I have been practicing

    I will be at the range again this week end and will try it again after my other range practice


    Before I leave the range I have been shooting

    strong hand one handed

    week hand one handed

    week hand 2 handed

    and in a short amount of time I am able to shoot well with my week hands

    So I guess I will spend a few minutes every week point shooting

    Thanks again
     
  12. LApm9

    LApm9 Silver Member

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    If you get a laser sight and practice point shooting by dry firing, you can get the muscle memory down.

    Test yourself at the range with the laser off.
     
  13. zoyter2

    zoyter2 Yeah, so what?

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    Excellent post. The first sentence pretty much summed up what the Army felt about point shooting when it was ALMOST sold to them as a training point. They found that with a trained aiming marksman, the shooter KNEW when he could score by point shooting and would do so. In other words, just like you said, "within it's envelope of space" it worked well. But, that in the end, in real world applications the aiming shooter so outperformed the point shooter that the notion of point shooting training basis was dismissed.
     
  14. David Armstrong

    David Armstrong

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    When did this come about, or am I misunderstanding your post? We were trained in target focus/point shooting when I went in in the early 70s, we were teaching point shooting as part of the rifle and pistol doctrine in the 80s, and my nephew, who completed Infantry AIT about 6 months ago spoke highly of the point shooting training he got and how surprised he was at how well it worked. There is certainly training with traditional sighted fire, but point shooting is also a part of the program, AFAIK.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  15. 7677

    7677 Millennium Member

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    That wasn't the case when I was on the trail in 1990s nor it was in the last 5 years while my friend was on the trail. Soldiers were and still are trained in both sighted and threat focused shooting.
     
  16. zoyter2

    zoyter2 Yeah, so what?

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    Apologies...I was referring to the era of Lucky (?) McDaniel. There is still some emphasis, but it is as you described. More a useful tool than an entire training doctrine as was suggested back in that day when the competition I mentioned took place.

    There were many who wanted PSing to be THE method of firing for infantry during that time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  17. 7677

    7677 Millennium Member

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    zoyter2,

    No problem and I agree with you that both need to be taught and that neither can take the others place. The problem always comes when people try to push one as the cure for every problem.

    I currently advocate threat focus shooting however if everyone was only teaching point shooting I would suddenly be the sighted fire needs to be taught too advocate!