Home > The Armory > Reloading > Please recommend a good 9mm seating / taper crimp die...

Please recommend a good 9mm seating / taper crimp die...

  1. I started loading 9mm and encountered some problems I did not have with other calibers (i.e. inconsistent seating depth and rounds hanging when exiting the die). loading with a Hornady LNL and dies. I have contacted Hornady and sent the die for a warranty repair, they returned the die with the same issues. I wasted 21 days with the die in transit and I am really disappointed with the way they have handled the situation. I had great experience with Hornady before but this is making me think twice about buying anything from them again. Since $30 is already less than the value of my time dealing with this sh!t, I would like to ask you guys to recommend another 9mm seating / taper crimp die for me to buy...
     
  2. I use the Redding Competition bullet seating die and for crimp either a Lee or Dillon crimp die.
     
  3. I own a set of dillon 9mm and a set of Redding competition pro 9mm dies .
    Could recommend either one both have worked. But really like the redding micrometer seater and the micrometer crimp die.
     
  4. I guess I want the back story because Hornady makes good stuff.
    I'm just guessing but you are doing the seating and crimping in separate steps, right?

    The seating die doesn't do much except keep the bullet upright while pushing it into a case with the proper amount of belling at the mouth. Dillon suggests 0.020" of bell.

    The taper crimp die just closes up the bell and this step is a little more critical because without enough crimp or too much crimp, the round might not chamber.

    I like to just see daylight at the leading edge when I put the round in a pair of calipers lengthwise. Maybe 0.004" of crimp works for me.

    Dillon dies have features that others lack.
     
  5. If you're not seating in one step and separately crimping in another, give that a whirl for optimal results. Difficult to imagine Hornady botched a die. I've gone with Redding Premium Seating and their Std Micrometer Crimp dies for clear sailing.
     
  6. My RCBS seater and Lee taper crimp dies work just fine, although the Lee die was very coarsely finished inside. Abraded a dusting of brass when new.

    It would be useful to know the bullet type being seated.
     
  7. I am actually seating and crimping on the same die. I have a powder cop die in station 4 so I do them both in one step. Never had any problems until now. I have done it that way before with 45 acp and 38 special. The option of doing it separately would require getting rid of the powder cop...
    I do have a case gauge to check and have never had a round not chamber before. I bell just enough to hold the bullet and then I set the crimp at 1/4 of a turn from case contact. It has always worked for me...
    Any suggestions of a die with both seating and the crimp? I may buy another Hornady, I'm just really disappointed at their customer service right now... I have already wasted many hours with this issue.
     
  8. I separated seating and crimp for all my rounds and solved a few problems. For 9mm my dies are RCBS.
     
  9. I thought they made a pass thru and belling powder funnel for the Hornady powder measure? .
     
  10. Coated cast bullets by chance?
     
  11. Redding Competition Seater and crimp dies.
     

  12. A good one trick pony, (so that you can keep your powder cop) get a set of RCBS carbide dies. They are taper crimp dies, so you wont have any issues there. Best bang for the buck.

    I gave up on hornady dies... ran into more trouble than they were worth. (pistol AND rifle)
    I wont go into details about hornady, but i will never buy ANY of their dies ever again.
     
  13. They do... its called the
    Hornady PTX Powder Drop Expander
    Notice the garbage quality... when you get one, you`ll have to fix it.



    [​IMG]
     
  14. Montana Gold 115 gr FMJs
     
  15. I need 7 or 8 stations on my press to do everything I want to do, at separate stations. But alas... I have a 650 and 750 with only 5 stations so have to seat and crimp on one die all too often.

    I use an RCBS # 20562 and it works very well.
    20200615_225440.jpg
     
  16. Boy, that ain't purty. I've been using DAAs lately, with my bullet feeders. I still polished those.
     
  17. Yeah i think they all need a little polishing. It really does help to keep the cases from sticking. But those hornady ones are the worst i`ve ever seen. They sure dropped the ball with their quality anymore. I`ve since made a few of my own and they work far better than the PTX`s.

    I use the the RCBS carbide taper dies, and they work flawless.
     
  18. You didnt say how much variation you are getting. A variation of 0.003" is pretty normal & even if it were 0.010", look at that on a caliper, pretty insignificant, as long as that doesnt put you into rifling.
    You will never get best results with mixed brass. You will never get best results seating & crimping in the same step. The lnl is a 5 stn press, you can run a cop & seat & crimp separate if using a powder thru die system.
     
  19. They do.
     
  20. I easily get +/- .0025 (.005 total variation) with that RCBS.

    Yeah... I actually use separate seat/crimp when forced to. Then I typically use the Redding Comp Seater. Two extremes... separate micrometer competition seater... combined seat/crimp. Truthfully, I don't think my ammo knows the difference.:faint:

    ETA: Yes, mixed brass is a deal killer. I still (mostly) sort by headstamp.
     
  21. I think there is more variation`s if your using a progressive press to load with anyway. Once the dies are locked in, they`re pretty much gonna stay put, but the issues will usually be the sub plate on the press itself. They ALL flex. You cant stop it either. Bullets arent perfect either. Bottoms of the cases after first firing arent perfect anymore either.

    I can understand wanting super accurate load for a benchrest rifle, but a 9mm pistol round, nah.
     
  22. Mixed brass, as noted earlier, affect COL. The cases flex a bit, and spring back. Harder cases like PMC tend to seat longer since it takes more seating force. More force. More flex. More springback. Longer COL.

    Nickel plated cases tend to seat easier. Less flex. Less springback. Therefore shorter COL.

    Typically doesn't matter.
     
  23. ^ That right there. Always huge amount of variables in the loop.
     
  24. ...and CBC (among others) won't gauge with my 147s. My headstamp inspection at the least, culls CBC. And that brass is the particular reason that I sort.

    I bought some processed mixed brass once, and it was about 20-25% CBC. Now it's new or Indoor range pickup for me, where I have a modicum of control.
     
  25. I myself use the Hornady taper crimp 3 die set with no set back issues at all in 9mm Luger. Would recommend the taper crimp set from Hornady. This result was using Precision Delta 124gr jacketed projectiles.
     
  26. I can't remember the amount off the top of my head, but was a little surprised by the tolerance of my O.A.L. on the Dillon compared to my T-7. There's some flex there. Compensate by a couple thou' and don't worry about it.
     
  27. Getting the adjustments right no matter the brand of die sometimes takes a LOT of trial and error. I found that during set up using a really strong magnifying glass and a case gauge for every caliber I load works well for me.
     
  28. Some 33 years ago I bought Lee 9mm Dies. It was what the LGS carried. Figured I would replace them when they wore out. Many 1000’s of rounds later they still work. If I was to replace the I would go with Dillon die sets.
     
  29. I’ve been going the other way and have almost replaced all my Dillon dies with lee the sizing die is far better and it doesn’t have that stupid spring on the decapping pin that pulls the old primers back into the case. I also prefer a seating die I can adjust without loosening the whole die.
     
  30. I use Dillon dies. Most important: always seat and crimp with separate dies. There you go.
     
  31. I use the Lee taper crimp die. It works beautifully.
     
  32. I have found just the opposite. I have not had a primer pulled back in since using the spring decapping die. Plus I don’t have the problem of the decapping pin being pushed up and not deprime cases with the Lee sizing die or universal decapping die. Long story, but it was the start of the reason why I had a major setback using the Lee universal decapping die.
     
  33. I separate my brass by headstamp and I have been using Federal, Winchester and Speer once fired brass that I fired myself so I believe seating should be relatively consistent. I recently loaded a batch of 100 rounds with once fired Blazer Brass and I noticed that brass is softer. The variation increased... When running all stations I get COLs between 1.141 and 1.160. When I run the same rounds again just through the seating die (all other stations empty) I get variations between 1.143 and 1.152...
     
  34. I've noticed some bullets will just give me wide oal variations typically they are the fmj type. Also you can check and see if the seater stem matches up with the bullet you are using. Example my redding seating stem does not work with hornady 147gr xtp it deformes the hollow point slightly.
     
  35. I really don't care for super accurate loads. I just want my reloads to fire reliably and they have so far. My issue is the aggravation of having to run the rounds twice through the seater and have to measure each round... I have loaded about 5,000 45 acp rounds and they have almost no variation. Maybe +- 0.002. I set those dies years ago and they work exactly as they did when I set them up. I don't have to be checking each round. I understand that everything flexes and that the shell plate may move a bit but not to have a variation of between 1.14X and 1.16X...
    Maybe I should try a batch with that variation on the gun and just let it be if it works... However, I think most of you will agree that you get a great feeling when things work right and a lousy one when they don't... I would like my rounds to be consistent and I think they should.
     
  36. Adjustments are especially challenging when restricted to the coarse 7/8 - 14 threads. Enter the micrometer adjustable seat and crimp dies. Makes fine adjustments and returning to previous settings a snap.
     
  37. Did you see my post #15? That die works on my Dillons just fine. But no single piece of brass likely sees my press more than 3 times and I shoot bunny-fart loads, so none of the brass is particularly abused. Be sure to use the appropriate stem.

    That RCBS seat/crimp die (in fact, likely any combo seat/crimp die) is a pain to initially adjust. But all final die adjustments are made with the varying degrees of cartridge completion in each station - which makes adjustment even more tedious. But once cranked down, nothing really varies (an inordinate amount). However, I don't have to worry about 'resetting' my popular loads as I use a variation of the sniper's creed (one shot, one kill) and maintain one load, one toolhead (including powder measure).

    I largely use machined toolheads, and secure them with that small screw/locking system available at UniqueTek. If changing out the toolhead, I don't tighten those screws without having a cartridge in every station. Overkill? Dunno! And some say the toolhead should float some. But with my system, I don't see what could cause cartridge parameter change other than press wear or dirty dies. So if you lube your press and clean your dies occasionally, I believe with things locked down like that, you can achieve more consistency. Someone here may have a different take on my "system".
     
  38. Not really. Progressive press is just a tool, nothing is really diff about the die setup. Yes the shell plate fkexes but you set your crimp for that & as long as you dont change the way you manipulate the press, pretty consistent. Even if it were not as precise as a SS press, the tniy variation means nothing.
     
  39. I throw my cbc range pickups In the trash. More than 50% failure to gage with 147gr bullets.
     
  40. What bullets? I have never had that much variation. Fwiw, speer, blazer & fc are likely made at the same plant, same parent company.
     
  41. CBC brass with a 147 is like the .45 small-primer-problem of 9mm. Everyone's life would be easier if it just simply didn't exist.
     
  42. So I do range pickups & the younger guys in my idpa sq just roll their eyes, but its like leaving a bag of nickeks on the ground. I inspect them as I pick them up two at a time. They arecbreaking down the last stage & as CSO I have done my work so I pick up brass.
    Just about all foreign brass gets tossed but pmc. Everything else is spotty with 147gr. I van get better failure rate using 135gr & mixed brass but I just find it simple to pick up what I know works.
     
  43. That's what I do (when I can). I'm not changing my beloved load for some occasional crappy brass.
     
  44. I should just buy once fired blazer but goes against my shoot cheaper philosophy. Plus hard to find once fired in one headstamp.
     
  45. Agreed... it means nothing to me either. Once the dies are set, they are set. I dont know how many times i`ve heard and listened to people that blame the die for inconsistencies. That usually isnt the problem, if set properly, and using the correct seater plug for the bullet being loaded.

    What i have seen though, people not using the proper seater plug with the profile of the bullets. Especially when loading copper plated bullets. Copper plated bullets are softer than some people think they are. Copper bullets arent extremely precise either. I think you know where i`m going with this. A seater plug that is pushing on the very tip of the bullet will flatten the tip of the copper plated bullet slightly. That guy will see his OAL more consistent due to flattening the tip a smidge, and taking his OAL measurements on this basis.


    Now take another guy, using a seater plug that is seating a bullet on the ogive and not touching the tip of the bullet, you`ll find some OAL length variances because now, we`re not working the tip. Copper plated bullets arent perfect. I`ve loaded thousands upon thousands, and i`ve never seen a 100% perfect one. Usually find dings and dents all over the tips. This CAN, play into consistencies. But its NOT something i`m very concerned with, its just a pistol round.

    I think some are just to anal about loading pistol rounds... i quit worrying about it decades ago.
    Not sure i described it to "your" liking, but thats my take on it, political correctness dosent apply.

    ;)
     
  46. Yeah... i`m still waiting to hear that answer too.
     
  47. Montana Gold 115 gr FMJs... I have been firing them out of a P365 I just got and I tell you, they are accurate. I've had great experience with these bullets in .45 and .38.
    All the brass I have loaded so far is pretty consistent. 1/4 turn crimp works well and they all gauge. I like FC and Speer the most...The problem is in the seating. Maybe the thread of the seating stem is banged or damaged allowing for some movement? I couldn't see anything obvious...
    Seating stem is flat and these bullets are not deforming or flattening at the tip at all. OAL should be more or less the same.

    BTW, thanks for the heads up with CBC. I have a bit of it and it is going to the bottom of the pile under the "just in case there is no more brass in the world" bag.
     
  48. The flattening if the tip is the issue with mixed brass. The brass resists seating & the bullet deforms. A 0.010" diff in deformation is certsinly possible. Why I dont worry about, just doesnt affect the accuracy of the pistol round.
    Fwiw, MG are very good bullets but quite expensive for casual paper punching. Coated lead from several comm makers are quite good for speed shooting steel or competitin or casual practice & quite a bit cheaper.
     
  49. My experience with inconsistent seating depth is usually related to the bullet profile and the seating die stem not matching up properly, so the bullet can be slightly off center as it is pushed into the casing. On my Lee die, I polished up the center of the seating stem to smooth out the surface and allow the bullet to center up a little better for RN profiles, and for FP profiles I have the seating stem filed flat so the meplat actually presses evenly against it.
     
  50. Redding competition seating die and competition crimp die.