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Please explain to me about those huge sights!

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by borntoglock, Nov 5, 2006.

  1. borntoglock

    borntoglock

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    I am fairly new to competitive shooting and I just don't get those huge sights. Do they help that much? It almost seems a bit like cheating too. Please educate me.:therapy:
     
  2. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    you mean dot sights? yes they help to a degree but they won't make a poor shooter a master or anything like that. if the rules allow them it can't be cheating. if you ever get the chance see if you can take a look with one, or maybe even shoot one.
     

  3. Archangel Mike

    Archangel Mike

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    At very close, gunfighting range; say within about 15 feet, a good experienced shooter draws, fires, and hits more by "muscle memory" than by using the sights.

    You get "muscle memory" by learning the PROPER classic 5-step draw stroke and then practice, practice, practice.

    When I used to do "dry fire" practice (NO AMMO in the ROOM, let alone in the gun!) I would face my dry-fire target and, as I started the 5-step draw, I would close my eyes. After the gun was up and I had dropped the striker, I would open my eyes and see where the sights ended up in relation to the intended point of aim. I would then make adjustments in stance, etc., until I was pretty much on it every time. Then I would practice, practice, practice that. To this day I can still pretty much draw, fire and hit at close range without actully "seeing" the sights, although I want to stress that I still DO bring the gun up to the sight line.

    The sights come more into use as the range extends. At extended distance, the "big dot" sights lose the precision you need to hit at those ranges.

    All in all, the best sights are the popular "Patridge" sight picture sights that are just about standard on every gun, for good reason.

    They work.

    In my opinion, the "express" or "big dot, large shallow "V"" type sights are just someone trying to convince you that an inferior product is actually superior -- just so he can get your money. In other words, "There is a sucker born every minute".

    The man and his skill is always more important than his equipment.

    :angel:
     
  4. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    If these are the ones you are speeking of they are called "Red Dots" and they are only legal in the Unlimited Masters Category.
     
  5. Archangel Mike

    Archangel Mike

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    I was talking about "Express" sights and Don is talking about "red dot" electronic sights.

    Two completely different animals.

    Electronic "red dot" sights on HANDGUNS are superior to "iron" sights, but ONLY for competitive use. With one possible exception, they are too bulky to personal protection purposes.

    There was once an electronic sight a little larger than a matchbox. I don't recall the name of it. It mounted right in the rear sight groove. It had no "on-off" switch. It came with a plastic cover that shut it off when the cover was on. I saw one of these rigged on a Glock G-26. The cover had a string on it, which was tied to the holster. When the gun was drawn, the cover came off and activated the sight.

    Most electronic "red dot" sights really come into their own on LONG guns -- which is why you see a LOT of them on pictures coming out of the Sand Box.

    :angel:
     
  6. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    mike you're on the GSSF board not tactics & training
     
  7. want2race441

    want2race441

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  8. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    i've used several makes of dot sights and have 4 differant makes on rifles and pistols now but i can't see how that dot mounted and moving with the slide can be as fast as a dot mounted to the frame.
     
  9. Archangel Mike

    Archangel Mike

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    He asked the question here so I gave him my two cents worth here.

    I get real tired of seeing newbies taken in by BS artists who try to sell gadgets in lieu of what they REALLY need to spend their money on when they are just starting to shoot.

    Good, BASIC equipment. Lessons from someone who KNOWS what they are doing. Ammo to practice with.

    Once they have a sound grounding in the basics they will have a better notion of what might REALLY improve their performance.

    Gadgets are no substitute for skill. As you might guess, the "express" sights are one such product that tends to peg my BS-o-meter.

    It has been my experience that newbies who start out on iron sights can successfully move to electronic dot optics, and back and forth at will. However, a newbie who starts with dot optics is never very good with irons.

    As I said, I think optics on a handgun are an answer in search of a question. I do grant that their development would not have occurred without the influence of IPSC handgunning, and if that had not happened they would not be available where they are now really needed; on military CQB long guns over in Afganistan and Iraq.

    I have an Aimpoint ML2 on my own M-4gery set up for night fighting, and am glad it is there in case I ever do need it.

    :angel:
     
  10. borntoglock

    borntoglock

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    Gents,

    I really do appreciate the input. My desire is to become an excellent marksman. I do lean to the raw side without a sight but I want to get all sides. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
     
  11. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Archangel Mike; I think you need to reread the original question. He did not mention Iron Sights. Although his question was a little vague we were trying to answer what we thought he was really asking. Your statements are all very accurate and to the point for a new shooter but the way I read his question your answer was not on point, only "borntoglock" can answer that as to more specifically what sights was he asking about. As I say your advice is good just not the answer I was reading into his original question.

    I shoot both Iron and dot sights and have for several years. They both have their place within their own venue. I do know an individual who shoots plane iron sights in UL Masters and holds his own very well even against those red dots.:thumbsup:
     
  12. borntoglock

    borntoglock

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    The sights I am referring to are the "Carver" type sights. I may not be describing them very well. I am attaching a picture of the type of sight I have seen and referring to.
     
  13. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Yep, that is exactly what I felt you were referring to. It is a "Red Dot" sight just like the one I posted a picture of. They are only authorized in the Unlimited Masters Category. If you are shooting in any other category your scores are not competeting against their scores. Here is a pic of another brand of the same type of sight which I have been using this season. It is called a C-more sight and is mounted on a Carver Mount on a Glock 37 and I shoot it in Unlimited Masters.
     
  14. borntoglock

    borntoglock

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    Don,

    Do you have an image of the sight picture?
     
  15. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    No, but I will see if I can do it with my camera. I am not a camera whiz so wish me luck.
     
  16. Jager1147

    Jager1147

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    Hi Don,

    Why did you choose the G37 for Unlimited, isn't 9mm the norm? I would expect the 45 GAP to be similar to shooting a .40, but I never shot one.
     
  17. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Actually if you reload the G37 rounds can be softer than a 9mm and still be very accurate. Since we don't have to worry about a Power Factor it's very easy to do. I shoot 200gr FP Xtreme bullets loaded with 4.1gr. of Titegroup and it is a real powder puff. I shot a G17L for 3 years in GSSF. This is my first year shooting a G37 in UL and in the 6 matches I have shot this year I have already shot a better score than I had in the 3 years with the 17L.The only drawback I see to shooting the 37 is getting your hands on once fired brass. The cheapest new brass is $113 per 1000 delivered from Starline Direct. That is pretty expensive if that is your prime source. I have even contacted 3 police dept. that carry the 37 with no luck on getting any once fired brass. Occassionally some can be had from e-bay IF you trust dealing with them.

    If you are ever at a match where my son-in-law (DEJ/FL or I) are shooting say hi and we will be more than happy to let you shoot a few rounds. The only difference between his and mine is color and he is using a PDP5SPL and I am using a C-more both on Carver Mounts.
     
  18. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Sorry, I have tried a half dozen tries and I cann't get a picture to come out where you can really see anything helpfull. If you know Grady or David there in your area of KY they both have one and I am sure they would be more than happy to let you see what it looks like.
     
  19. borntoglock

    borntoglock

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  20. DP177

    DP177

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    Borntoglock,

    I know there used to be a thread on AR15.com where many different sight pictures were posted looking thru just about every red dot sight ever made. I'll try to find it but its been a while since I've been over there. Pretty sure it was under the optics forum and might have even been a sticky.

    DP