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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With plated bullets, I've always figured that the correct powder charge is somewhere between the book values for lead and book values for jacketed rounds.

This week, I'm trying to find .45ACP loads and I come across a load for a plated Midway FP 200 grain bullet which is described as plated. Their load for Unique is four tenths of a grain higher than the hottest load I could find anywhere for a jacketed bullet, and a full 1.1 grains higher than what I thought was a safe maximum.
Does it make sense that a plated round would require more powder than a standard jacketed round?
What is the logic behind this?

Alliant does something similar on their reloading page where they list loads for a CPRN (I assume it is copper plated round nose) bullet that is 1.3 grains higher than for a Gold Dot Hollow Point:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=35
 

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It doesn't make sense for plated bullets to call for a higher charge weight than for a jacketed bullet. It is not surprising that Speer is a little higher, since their handgun data is commonly on the warm side.

I'm with your line of thinking. Me? I'd find 3 sources of jacketed data and find about an average of mid range loads and try that, or reduce slightly, to start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys. I already pulled all my hair out, and I was getting ready to throw the manuals out the window. I've got a Glock 30 SF which is having problems with my reloads. I'm three tenths of a grain below what several manuals list as a maximum load for Unique with a 200 grain FMJ bullet (6.8 grains). It works fine in my Glock 21. But, I get several types of failures in the Glock 30SF which make me suspect that the slide is not getting pushed all the way back. The gun cycles and some rounds feed, while others stick on the feed ramp (TMJs). But, several cases stayed in the chamber (not a stove pipe). It just looks like the slide isn't cycling completely. Rather than go to the maximum load, I'm switching to a 230 grain round nosed plated. But, I don't want to have to relegate this gun to the special ammo only section with the other safe queens.
I always just use jacketed data and quit if I get to 1200fps (if I am even going that high).
That's typically the approach I take, but when I pull scary numbers out of reloading manuals, it makes me a little nervous.
I'm with your line of thinking. Me? I'd find 3 sources of jacketed data and find about an average of mid range loads and try that, or reduce slightly, to start.
I agree. It makes no sense to me that plated would take more powder.
I always look at Hornady to see what the low end of the spectrum should look like. And, if they aren't the lowest load that I find quickly, I figure somebody somewhere made a mistake. Then I pull out six manuals and my copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads.
I figure that Midway pulled its Loadmap books off the market because somebody blew up a gun or something.
 
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My own vel testing has proven to me that, at least in my guns, plated bullets are closer to a lead bullet than a jacketed bullet. If you never go above midrange, then using jacketed data will be fine. Where things can get ugly is plugging in a plated bullet for with max effort jacketed data.
Now even with coated lead we have smooth bullets & grooved bullets. The smooth bullets will produce MORE pressure & vel with identical loads & a grooved bullet; more bearing surface on a smooth bullet. My practice load using a 147gr coated smooth is 3/10gr less than using a grooved coated at the same OAL.
 

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Do yourself a favor and ditch the plated in favor of Hi-Tek coated 230g bullets and use Bullseye. My 30S will function down to 3.2-3.3g and the 21SF at 3.7 grains. Both controllable and accurate to 25 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'd appreciate it if you could post a link to the Hi Tek bullets.
My 30S will function down to 3.2-3.3g and the 21SF at 3.7 grains.
If I'm not mistaken, the 30S uses the lighter / thinner slide from a Glock 36.
It seems like my 30SF needs a stouter load than my Glock 21.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I just looked at the Midway Loadmap loads for a 230 grain Midway plated round nose and it is actually a little lower than the Speer load for FMJ.
There is no consistency to their data.
 

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I'd appreciate it if you could post a link to the Hi Tek bullets.

If I'm not mistaken, the 30S uses the lighter / thinner slide from a Glock 36.
It seems like my 30SF needs a stouter load than my Glock 21.
That is correct. I failed to mention that I load some for a friend's 30SF at 3.5 grains BE and his works fine.
Here is a link for you. I've had great service from this company, formerly owned by the brother of Jerry Miculek. http://bayoubullets.net/categories/hi-tek-supercoat-bullets/45-acp.html
I have used the 230g RN and also the 255g with great success.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the link.....
Here is a link for you. I've had great service from this company, formerly owned by the brother of Jerry Miculek. http://bayoubullets.net/categories/hi-tek-supercoat-bullets/45-acp.html
I have used the 230g RN and also the 255g with great success.
I'm a complete Luddite when it comes to lead in Glocks
BUT, they say:
Bayou Bullets said:
They are completely safe to use in Glock's polygonal rifled barrels
http://www.bayoubullets.net/categories/about-our-bullets.html
I failed to mention that I load some for a friend's 30SF at 3.5 grains BE and his works fine.
I've got a little over a pound of Bullseye .... I'm still waffling on which powder to use on my next run. :dunno: It depends on whether I've finally got my Dillon throwing correctly again.
 

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Thanks for the link.....

I'm a complete Luddite when it comes to lead in Glocks
BUT, they say:

http://www.bayoubullets.net/categories/about-our-bullets.html

I've got a little over a pound of Bullseye .... I'm still waffling on which powder to use on my next run. :dunno: It depends on whether I've finally got my Dillon throwing correctly again.
Coated lead & lubed lead are totally diff. A coated bullet is like a thin plated, totally safe for glock bbls.
 
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It should be easy to get a 230gr bullet load to work in every 45 you have. 4.2 to 5.0 grains of Bullseye should work really well. If you want a powder puff load try WST around 4.2 grains. For a full power load try 8.5gr of AA5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm using Rainier bullets....
Directly from a Berry’s Manufacturing representative...
“Plated bullets should not be loaded using FMJ data they are loaded to Lead data”.
I wonder if the plating on Berry's is different from Rainier, because this is what they say:
Rainier recommends using commercially published jacketed bullet load data when loading our projectiles. There is no need for adjustment when using jacketed bullet load data. Our bullets are completely encapsulated in copper, creating a “Total Copper Jacket” (TCJ) through a specialized electroplating process, and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets.
We recommend a starting powder charge between the listed minimum and maximum load found in various published and reputable reloading manuals.

A slight taper or minimal roll crimp may be used with our bullets. Over-crimping plated bullets may result in decreased accuracy, and can result in the fragmentation of copper plating.
We recommend the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. This die will not seat the bullet. The bullet should be seated with your regular seating die. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the case after crimping , trim length is not critical. Impossible to buckle the case, crimps bullets with no cannelure. This will eliminate the frustration with adjusting dies that seat and crimp in the same cycle.
http://www.rainierballistics.com/load-data/
 

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All the plated bullets are slightly diff. Plating thickness & lead hardness.
 
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Do yourself a favor and ditch the plated in favor of Hi-Tek coated 230g bullets and use Bullseye. My 30S will function down to 3.2-3.3g and the 21SF at 3.7 grains. Both controllable and accurate to 25 yards.
I'm just trying to learn and at Black Friday bought a case of X-treme plated in 9mm and .38/.357 for range loads using Bullseye. Good luck finding useful info from reloading manuals or from the powder co for these combinations. Through asking questions on this forum, reading, and asking X-treme I determined for plated .38 using a 158gr bullet and Bullseye a start charge of 3.5 (max for lead/coated) and a max charge of 4gr. You would think with a significant number of shooters using plated bullets these would be included in the reloading manuals. At least the powder co manuals and online info. I think it's Berry's that states just use loading info for lead for their plated. X-treme must be a heavier plate because the lead loadings isn't sufficient amount of powder at the stated minimum. I just bought some 9mm from PD on sale and in the future probably some coated. Take my comments with a large dose of salt 'cause I don't know what I'm talking about :)
 

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Normal plated bullets need to be kept under 1200pfs. Heavy plated bullets need to be kept under 1500fps. I run heavy plated bullets at over 1300fps to make 9mm major with no problems. Just use those numbers (feet per second) when picking your powder load. Watching your crimp is more important in my opinion.
 

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Thanks guys. I already pulled all my hair out, and I was getting ready to throw the manuals out the window. I've got a Glock 30 SF which is having problems with my reloads. I'm three tenths of a grain below what several manuals list as a maximum load for Unique with a 200 grain FMJ bullet (6.8 grains). It works fine in my Glock 21. But, I get several types of failures in the Glock 30SF which make me suspect that the slide is not getting pushed all the way back. The gun cycles and some rounds feed, while others stick on the feed ramp (TMJs). But, several cases stayed in the chamber (not a stove pipe). It just looks like the slide isn't cycling completely. Rather than go to the maximum load, I'm switching to a 230 grain round nosed plated. But, I don't want to have to relegate this gun to the special ammo only section with the other safe queens.

That's typically the approach I take, but when I pull scary numbers out of reloading manuals, it makes me a little nervous.

I agree. It makes no sense to me that plated would take more powder.
I always look at Hornady to see what the low end of the spectrum should look like. And, if they aren't the lowest load that I find quickly, I figure somebody somewhere made a mistake. Then I pull out six manuals and my copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads.
I figure that Midway pulled its Loadmap books off the market because somebody blew up a gun or something.
While I would never encourage anyone to go over book levels, there is a fairly large margin of safety in book loads. If you find a hotter than normal load from a credible source, I wouldn't worry about using it, but always work up.

The reason numbers are all over the block is different test barrel, different test equipment, different people conducting the tests (maybe on which day the test was conducted :)). These factors are taken into account when all the standards are considered and codified, providing a really good margin, even for maybe the most feckless reloader. ;)
 

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Normal plated bullets need to be kept under 1200pfs. Heavy plated bullets need to be kept under 1500fps. I run heavy plated bullets at over 1300fps to make 9mm major with no problems. Just use those numbers (feet per second) when picking your powder load. Watching your crimp is more important in my opinion.
Why I think coated lead are more forgiving than plated, harder to mess up the crimp.
 
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Why I think coated lead are more forgiving than plated, harder to mess up the crimp.
I guess that's true, but you could also argue it's easier to over-crimp coated. I've never had any problem with crimping plated, but my understanding is that the standard X-Treme plating is thicker than some. And those are the only plated bullets I've used.
 
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