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Discussion Starter #1
I wish we could get some consistency from the subject matter experts on the street. How else are we supposed to revamp our training if we don't know what to improve? Here are some of the helpful suggestions by the peaceful protestors:

- Shoot them in the leg. We definitely need Uncle Joe's help on this one. And which part if the leg - kneecap ala Guido-style, shinbone....connected to the thighbone, femoral artery??

- Taser. Yes, the always 100% reliable never fails Taser that instantly stills a suspect like Medusa's stare.

- De-escalate. This one I need a refresher on. What exactly are those magic words we learned that will impart a sense of serenity to an aggressive suspect brandishing a deadly weapon and charging at you from ten feet away. Its really important that we get the exact tone and delivery correct in that 0.6 seconds we have before that knife is plunged into our jugglar.

I'm just thankful we have so many wonderful folks that want to help us being better po-pos.
 

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If there’s some magic words that will get them to drop the knife I’d love to hear about it.

And If they just simply aren’t going to drop the knife no matter what I say or do... let me know ahead of time.

Randy


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If there’s some magic words that will get them to drop the knife I’d love to hear about it.

And If they just simply aren’t going to drop the knife no matter what I say or do... let me know ahead of time.

Randy


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I think the universal language of having a gun pointed at you means the other person will probably kill you unless you do what they say. So magic words are “drop the knife” backed up by a gun. :wavey:
 

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In my incident it wasn’t that the guy was coming at me with a bayonet, it was when He started screaming, “ I am going to kill you”. That made me suspect he meant me harm.



Fortunately this was long enough ago that instead of being asked why I shot him, I was instead asked, “ why didn’t you shoot him sooner”?
 

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- De-escalate. This one I need a refresher on. What exactly are those magic words we learned that will impart a sense of serenity to an aggressive suspect brandishing a deadly weapon and charging at you from ten feet away. Its really important that we get the exact tone and delivery correct in that 0.6 seconds we have before that knife is plunged into our jugglar.

I'm just thankful we have so many wonderful folks that want to help us being better po-pos.
Since THEY don’t even know what it means, I think cops should just start yelling “deescalate!!!!!” On every call, particularly during UOF incidents, and especially while discharging their firearm. It should be the 2020’s new verbal command for this new age of policing.

Then there will be no doubt on the body cam and bystander footage that the officers were attempting to deescalate the situation.


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People simply do not understand real violence, and how hard it is to stop a determined attacker.. add mental illness and or drugs and it is almost impossible to stop someone without the risk of killing them.

Even pro cop folks believe all kinds of nonsense. Sean Hannity who is consistently pro cop keeps pushing a plastic gun that shoots pepper balls and tear gas as the be all end all solution.

He claims cops should be armed with the device and that it instantly incapacitates people. What a load of crap, how stupid do you have to be to think that a plastic ball delivering pepper spray/tear gas is 100% effective against individual 100% or the time?
 

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with the right drugs or if you are crazy enough tear gas can be completely ignored!
 
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with the right drugs or if you are crazy enough tear gas can be completely ignored!
I’m old and neither OC, nor CN/ CS will deter me I can still walk through clouds of each without a mask , recently had some firemen follow me into a home post Event where we used a lot of burning gas with our DRACO system so the house was still ripe, and I was not wearing a mask so they were not wearing oxygen, as I was showing them the hole we made in the structure I heard massive coughing and an O CRAP as they ran out. Tear gas does not effect the determined among us .


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Discussion Starter #9
People simply do not understand real violence, and how hard it is to stop a determined attacker.. add mental illness and or drugs and it is almost impossible to stop someone without the risk of killing them.

Even pro cop folks believe all kinds of nonsense. Sean Hannity who is consistently pro cop keeps pushing a plastic gun that shoots pepper balls and tear gas as the be all end all solution.

He claims cops should be armed with the device and that it instantly incapacitates people. What a load of crap, how stupid do you have to be to think that a plastic ball delivering pepper spray/tear gas is 100% effective against individual 100% or the time?
Just out of curiosity I found a study indicating that real world Taser effectiveness is only about 60%. I never bought into Axon's marketing numbers but I was surprised it was that low, figures more like 75%.
 

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Just out of curiosity I found a study indicating that real world Taser effectiveness is only about 60%. I never bought into Axon's marketing numbers but I was surprised it was that low, figures more like 75%.
Explains all the instances where the taser fails and the cops are at a complete loss as to what to do next doesn’t it?
 
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^^ I've used one once. it was effective, very effective. but have seen them fail countless, countless times. great for right place, right time, right placement. all too often, is never the case. when they work, they WORK. when they don't, they DON'T.
 

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Just out of curiosity I found a study indicating that real world Taser effectiveness is only about 60%. I never bought into Axon's marketing numbers but I was surprised it was that low, figures more like 75%.
Our agency has ~35 percent success rate with Taser. This includes X26, X26p, and the X2. X2 is by far the worst culprit. Five months out of the year they’re just useless.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Our agency has ~35 percent success rate with Taser. This includes X26, X26p, and the X2. X2 is by far the worst culprit. Five months out of the year they’re just useless.
We have a better success rate, probably around the 75% number I quoted earlier but we don't deploy them often enough to make a meaningful study. We tend to go to hands on before Taser use and it usually stops there. That is a win-win for everyone.

I agree 100% on having multiple options available. Relying on a Taser is like relying on your GPS for navigation. They do have these things called maps after all.
 

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Meet Walter Wallace Jr, The Career Criminal Whose Shooting by Police Triggered Riots in Philly

Walter-Wallace-Jr-Mugshots.jpg

Court records show Wallace was currently awaiting trial for allegedly threatening to shoot a woman and her house up.

In 2017, he pled guilty to robbery, assault, and possessing an instrument of crime after kicking down the door of another woman and putting a gun to her head.

He was sentenced to 11-23 months behind bars.

And in 2013, he pled guilty to assault and resisting arrest after punching a police officer in the face.

He was arrested in March after he allegedly threatened his child’s mother over the phone, saying “I’ll shoot you and that house up.”

In 2019, he was charged with resisting arrest by “kicking the windows and door panels of a police patrol car.”

In 2016, during a robbery, he allegedly grabbed a woman by the neck and held what she believed to be a gun to her head, according to court records.

In 2013, Wallace’s mother had a protective order against him which he allegedly violated when he “threw water in her face and punched her in the face” and “threatened to return and shoot” ---her, according to court records.
--------------------------------------------------------

SSDD
 
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Meet Walter Wallace Jr, The Career Criminal Whose Shooting by Police Triggered Riots in Philly

View attachment 858434
Court records show Wallace was currently awaiting trial for allegedly threatening to shoot a woman and her house up.

In 2017, he pled guilty to robbery, assault, and possessing an instrument of crime after kicking down the door of another woman and putting a gun to her head.

He was sentenced to 11-23 months behind bars.

And in 2013, he pled guilty to assault and resisting arrest after punching a police officer in the face.

He was arrested in March after he allegedly threatened his child’s mother over the phone, saying “I’ll shoot you and that house up.”

In 2019, he was charged with resisting arrest by “kicking the windows and door panels of a police patrol car.”

In 2016, during a robbery, he allegedly grabbed a woman by the neck and held what she believed to be a gun to her head, according to court records.

In 2013, Wallace’s mother had a protective order against him which he allegedly violated when he “threw water in her face and punched her in the face” and “threatened to return and shoot” ---her, according to court records.
--------------------------------------------------------

SSDD
Interesting how his appearance kept changing...but you still see those evil eyes...
 

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Unfair Facist
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Be interesting to know if he had actually been medically diagnosed as mentally ill or if it is simply claimed he was because of his violent behavior.

From what I have read he appears to be a typical street thug. For street people like him violence is a choice, it is a tactic they employ to get what they want.

Of course the liberal mindset is that such people are “mentally ill”.
 

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We have a mental health crises in this country which is being blamed on cops.
 
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People simply do not understand real violence, and how hard it is to stop a determined attacker.. add mental illness and or drugs and it is almost impossible to stop someone without the risk of killing them.

Even pro cop folks believe all kinds of nonsense. Sean Hannity who is consistently pro cop keeps pushing a plastic gun that shoots pepper balls and tear gas as the be all end all solution.

He claims cops should be armed with the device and that it instantly incapacitates people. What a load of crap, how stupid do you have to be to think that a plastic ball delivering pepper spray/tear gas is 100% effective against individual 100% or the time?
What showed me the light on this issue was watching all the police shooting video that can be found on the internet.

I came away thinking that Tasers don’t work reliably, some people will not consent to arrest, and other people will even try to beat up an armed cop.

I was 46 y.o. when I found out, BTW.
 

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How many social workers and psychologist need be sent downrange and wasted, until the perp is shot?
 
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