pepper spray legality

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Capt. Jack, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Capt. Jack

    Capt. Jack CLM

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    First, I am not a LEO

    I live in Florida, what are the ramifications for using pepper spray to repel a protester
    that harasses you at a restaurant by sitting down at your table and seriously harassing you?

    thanks
    Capt. Jack
    (fishing capt.)
     
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  2. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    Is your use of force reasonable, or did you just escalate the discussion?
     

  3. Uncle Mark

    Uncle Mark Bitter American

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    I'd be interested in that. I've got a Kimber Pepper Blaster "gun" that I carry with me now and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Don't want to use the XDs unless I have to.
     
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  4. Capt. Jack

    Capt. Jack CLM

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    Pepper spray is legal in Florida
    Thats not the question
     
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  5. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    I’d check with a criminal lawyer rather than rely on Internet legal advice.

    I’d be surprised if you can respond with force, let alone a weapon, to verbal harassment in general. I’d think it was thin ice at best under very narrow circumstances if ever. Maybe for actual verbal threat.

    Randy


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Capt. Jack

    Capt. Jack CLM

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    Certainly not relying on internet advice
    just curious on opinions from a pretty well informed group.
     
  7. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Disparity of force can apply in self defense. If you are old, infirm, or frail that puts you at a disadvantage or the attacker is skilled in martial arts, creating an unfair advantage, you can use weapons when attacker is unarmed for instance to overcome your disadvantage.

    Does not apply if your harasser is a skilled heckler or your feelings are unusually fragile in this case... . (just kidding around here, don’t take this the wrong way...)

    I would not recommend responding to verbal with physical response in general... even less so with weapon, even if it’s less lethal.

    Randy


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  8. Capt. Jack

    Capt. Jack CLM

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    Randy...good answer
    Thanks
     
  9. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Chute hit it. OC is physical force. If you can't punch him, you can't hose him. Note that you *can* punch people before they actually hit you, but the articulation falls squarely on you.

    The tactical and technique problems are a whole nother kettle of fish. I will advise against just sitting there and admiring your handiwork.
     
  10. WT

    WT Millennium Member

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    Referring to Gutmacher's book, 6th edition, page 193,

    "Examples of the legal use of non-deadly force (include) ...
    A person who is so disorderly as to be committing a breach of the peace in your presence and who will not desist ..."
     
  11. Vigilant

    Vigilant

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    Although pepper spray is near the bottom of the Force Continuum, you may still want to have a look. If you cannot de-escalate the encounter and cannot retreat, you would probably have no choice but to deploy the spray. Anger is not a valid cause. Stream works best for me. All you need is a good shot to the eyes. If you hit the nose and mouth as well, that could help. Do not spray anyplace but the face, with priority to the eyes. If you can articulate that you feared for your safety or that of someone with you, make sure you report that when the time comes. The smallest canister I would recommend is the MK 3. And find some law enforcement grade spray, not some crap they're selling at a gun show. I carry an MK-4 in my right front pocket, but my situation is different. If you get the chance, shake it up before you spray. I would also get the same size canister in inert form, for practice once or twice at first.

    As soon as it is safe to do so, make a note of the time. Also, as soon as it's safe, identify mentally the series of events of the encounter, and be ready to report that when the time comes.
     
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  12. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    Here in Texas, you aren't justified in using force for verbal provocation. If you use the OC or other types of sprays, just remember the unlawful force being used or about to be used against you has to be imminent. Don't forget, your use of force has to be necessary...at least here in Texas.
     
  13. Rob96

    Rob96 Millennium Member

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    Look up totality of the circumstances and if you think a reasonable person would have done what you did to protect yourself.
     
  14. Gauss Rifle

    Gauss Rifle

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    Where does the law stand on protesters that physically breach your personal space?

    Example; the @$$clowns that harass people at restaurants; start crowding around them, flipping tables, messing with their food, etc.
     
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  15. Capt. Jack

    Capt. Jack CLM

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    Gauss...that was my original question
    i gather the consensus here is, unless you feel physical harm ie. only verbal abuse, use of force such as pepper spray is not legal.
     
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  16. Bradley T

    Bradley T

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    Try not to go anywhere these people go. They will badger, harangue and mercilessly assault you, and you have to wonder if it's even legal to defend. Best thing to do is eat somewhere they aren't and if they show, you and your lady go out through the kitchen. Escape is your best option! These people get pepper sprayed somewhere every night, don't even go there.
     
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  17. pac201

    pac201

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    Call for the manager of the restaurant and have them removed.
     
  18. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Rational

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    This. I would highly advise not whipping it out and start spraying at a crowd of these psychos. They take hard pepper spray every night when they riot....your little 2 oz can of non-name-brand spray isn't going to do anything other than piss them off. And before you know it, unless you have a gun, you're going to be lying in a pool of blood and broken teeth.

    If you are on the patio and you see these clowns coming, get up, go inside, lock the door behind you (most restaurant doors have dead bolts on them), and seek an exit out the back. Don't worry about the other patrons, they are not your concern.
     
  19. narkcop128

    narkcop128

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    In the video I just saw the thug sat down at a table and told the woman I'm going to kick your boyfriends a**.
    At that point he's good to spray since he just advised his intention to commit assault.