Overreaching "Gun-Free Schools" policy...

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mrs. Tink, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. Mrs. Tink

    Mrs. Tink Semper Fidelis

    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    So tonight the school board will be asked to adopt a new "Weapons in School" policy to conform to the Gun-Free Schools Act, 20 USC 7151. I might be missing something here, but nothing in the law requires this draconian of a policy:

    ------------
    Mandatory expulsion in accordance with state and federal law

    Carrying, bringing, using, or possessing a dangerous weapon on district property, in any district or school vehicle, or at any district or school-sponsored activity or event and off school property when the conduct has a reasonable connection to school or any district curricular or non-curricular event without the authorization of the school or the school district is prohibited and is grounds for mandatory expulsion. An exception to this policy may be made for students participating in an authorized extracurricular activity or team involving the use of firearms.

    “Dangerous weapons” include, but are not limited to:

    1. Firearms, loaded or unloaded

    2. Pellet or BB guns or other devices, whether operational or not, designed to propel projectiles by spring action or compressed air.

    3. Fixed-blade knives with blades that measure longer than three inches in length or spring-loaded knives or pocket knives with blades that measure longer than three and one-half inches in length (the knife blade will be measured from the hilt to the top of the blade); and any knives, regardless of length, which a student uses or presents in a threatening manner.

    4. Another object, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate, used or intended to be used to inflict death or serious bodily injury including, but not limited to slingshot, bludgeon, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any kind..

    5. Any other object identified and defined as a dangerous weapon by state or federal law.

    Unless expulsion is otherwise required by federal law, a student may, but need not, be expelled for violating this policy if, as soon as possible upon discovering that he or she is in possession of a dangerous weapon, the student notifies and delivers the weapon to a teacher, administrator, or other authorized person.

    In accordance with federal and state law, expulsion shall be for one calendar year for any student who is determined to have brought a firearm to school without the authorization of the school or the District. The superintendent may reduce the length of this required expulsion period on a case-by-case basis. For purposes of this policy, a “firearm” includes:

    a. any weapon, including a starter gun, which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

    b. the frame or receiver of any such weapon described above;

    c. any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or

    d. any destructive device

    Any “destructive device” is defined as:

    a. any explosive, incendiary or poison gas, bomb, grenade; rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce; mine; or similar device described in paragraphs a-d above.

    b. any type of weapon which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

    c. any combination or parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described above and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

    Student possession or use of fixed-blade knives with blades that measure less than three inches in length or pocket knives with blades that measure less than three and one-half inches in length (the knife blade will be measured from the hilt to the top of the blade), box cutters, razor blades, hobby knives and similar instruments without the specific authorization of a school official is prohibited. The possession or use of such items without authorization may be grounds for disciplinary action including, but not limited to suspension or expulsion. In addition, referral to law enforcement authorities may occur as appropriate.

    Discretionary discipline in accordance with state law

    Carrying, using, actively displaying or threatening with the use of a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm on district property, when being transported in vehicles dispatched by the district or one of its schools, during a school-sponsored or district-sponsored activity or event, and off school property when such conduct has a reasonable connection to school or any district curricular or non-curricular event without the authorization of the school or school district is prohibited. Students who violate this policy provision may be subject to disciplinary action including but not limited to suspension and/or expulsion.

    A student may seek prior authorization from the building principal to carry, bring, use or possess a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm on school property for purposes of a school-related or non-school related activity. A student’s failure to obtain such prior authorization is a violation of this policy provision and may result in disciplinary action, including but not limited to suspension and/or expulsion. The principal’s decision to deny or permit a student to carry, bring, use or possess a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm on school property shall be final.

    School administrators shall consider violations of this policy provision on a case-by-case basis to determine whether suspension, expulsion or any other disciplinary action is appropriate based upon the individual facts and circumstances involved.

    Record Keeping
    As required by law, the District shall maintain records which will describe the circumstances involving expulsion of students who bring weapons to school, including the name of the school, the number of students expelled, and the types of weapons involved.

    Any student bringing a firearm or other dangerous weapon to school without authorization shall be referred to law enforcement officials as appropriate in accordance with applicable law.


    --------------

    "Off school property" with a "reasonable connection"?? That's not defined anywhere. Also, the carrying-anything-that-looks-like-a-gun part, especially when it isn't restricted just to school property, is troubling to me. It's awfully broad.

    Your thoughts please. I have a vote.
     
  2. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,373
    Likes Received:
    86
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Location:
    Spring, TX.
    Insanity...

    So if a father of the quarterback wants to take some of the team members Dove hunting, do they get expelled for that?

    I realize that the world is a different place now than when I went to high school. It has been 27 years since I graduated.

    But I used to hunt with some of the coaches and team members before school and after. Guess where my guns were?

    If you didn't have a Buck 110 in your back pocket then you couldn't really consider yourself prepared for the day.
     

  3. THplanes

    THplanes

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    DFW
    "'4. Another object, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate, used or intended to be used to inflict death or serious bodily injury including, but not limited to slingshot, bludgeon, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any kind.."

    Fists ,shoelaces, keys, cars,.....:dunno:
     
  4. bob_fuller

    bob_fuller

    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Location:
    Ankeny, Iowa
    wow. but from the section on knives, it sounds like they can have small pocket knives as long as the blades is 3.5 inches or less. at my school they pretty much freak if you sharpen a pencil a little bit too much. (ok, a slight exaggeration, but still.)
     
  5. hamster

    hamster NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Likes Received:
    29
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Man, the whole Zero tolerance thing has gone waaay too far.
     
  6. american lockpicker

    american lockpicker License to Il

    Messages:
    8,219
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Wood County, West Virginia
    I have no tolerance for zero tolerance.
     
  7. Glock-it-to-me

    Glock-it-to-me Catching liars

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Location:
    Go ask Alice, I think she'll know
  8. MSBullock

    MSBullock

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    :dunno:Wait, so if your student is working on a craft project, like a diorama; and they use a box cutter or hobby knife IN YOUR OWN HOME, you have to get authorization from a school official?

    I'd say that they have the right to police school grounds. But what's stated above goes a little too far. Like you've stated, they worded that a little to vaguely. I'd vote against it.
     
  9. Mrs. Tink

    Mrs. Tink Semper Fidelis

    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Thanks, guys. I got the rest of the school board to wait on a vote until early April. In the meantime I am going to work with whatever staff member wrote this thing to "help them revise it."

    My goal is to cut out the ambiguity and to limit it to what the law actually requires.

    I'm really glad that 1) I am on the school board to see nonsense come up like this and 2) that no union members or other members of the public were there to challenge my "rescue" of the district from such a poorly written policy.
     
  10. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

    Messages:
    12,129
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Mrs. Tink
    I agree with your thought process here, it should only apply directly with school property and activities! Unless it on there property or a funded school activity they have no say so what so ever!:supergrin:
     
  11. kirgi08

    kirgi08 Watcher. Silver Member

    Messages:
    37,069
    Likes Received:
    6,278
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Acme proving grounds.

    Ma'aM,when you write the common sense "version",the idiots will be there.Stick ta your "guns" STS.'08. :supergrin:
     
  12. Skyhook

    Skyhook

    Messages:
    13,068
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    So, Mrs. Tink, how's it going?

    I read that entire business twice over (coming late to the party, as usual) and know what? The stench of liberal arm pit and progressive nether regions had me running for the shower/medicine chest.

    What a repulsive piling of word refuse that proposed policy was/is!

    Maybe whatever lawyer wannabe who composed that monstrosity should be avoided?:dunno:
     
  13. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Messages:
    34,969
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    Off school property should be beyond their control. Once you walk off of school property, the state & local laws should apply.
     
  14. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

    Messages:
    13,123
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Location:
    Green Country
    We probably should realize, these ah, restictons.....have nothing to do with "weapons" anyway. The school implements them to derail any "lawsuit" that may be forthcoming in a situation, that's all.

    It's all about being sued, nothing more. Being sued frightens them much more than any "weapons" incident or hurt student. It's the shape of things today.


    That's why all the "ands", "ifs", "hows", and "ors" that are there.They are simply trying to cover their butts in the most complete way they can think of, for all the good it'll do them. I don't think they could care less if a couple of kids fought a duel at closing time, they just don't want to be held "responsible" for the outcome. So we get all the "zero tolerance" junk just so they can say in court, "Well, we did our part" if need be.


    Blame the parent who believes they see a gold mine when their kid gets stuck with a sharp pencil.
     
  15. silentpoet

    silentpoet

    Messages:
    30,883
    Likes Received:
    21,478
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    This Old Caddy
    I assume you will be going to board meetings to raise your concerns until they listen.
     
  16. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Messages:
    34,969
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    Better than that, she's on the board. :supergrin:
     
  17. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo Ancient Member Millennium Member

    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    223
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 1999
    Location:
    Free Republic of Tejas
    I remember long ago when in sixth grade I took my grandpa's Colt 45 to school for show and tell, along with a couple of pictures of Pancho Villa, who he rode with for a time.

    Got an A for the presentation, and no police were called, nor was there a lockdown.

    Different times... que lastima...

    Ronaldo
     
  18. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Messages:
    34,969
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Location:
    Republic of Texas


    For a presentation speech in high school, I demonstrated how to sharpen a knife, with a bayonet.

    Made wine for my 8th grade science project.

    :dunno:
     
  19. silentpoet

    silentpoet

    Messages:
    30,883
    Likes Received:
    21,478
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    This Old Caddy
    I showed how to make smoke bombs in speech class.
     
  20. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

    Messages:
    13,123
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Location:
    Green Country



    Gracious me!

    You'd be in "intervention" before you could blink now a days. Not to mention the "State" would invade your home and string up your parents until you were 45.

    Thank goodness we've overcome all that "moonshine" foolishness now.