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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is disheartening

For immediate release:



AMERICA’S MOST EXPERIENCED PILOTS…

THE NEXT WAVE OF OUTSOURCING




MEMPHIS, TN, June 7, 2006 – Thousands of pilot jobs in this country will soon be outsourced to foreign airlines with the apparent consent of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the nation’s largest pilot union. Industry observers say that these job transfers will occur due to the union’s support for an FAA regulation that prohibits American pilots from flying for American companies past the age of 60 (the “Age 60 rule”). In contrast to ALPA’s stated position, a significant number of ALPA’s own members along with pilots at Southwest, JetBlue, Air Tran, and the British Air Line Pilots Association (BALPA) are actively lobbying to change the age limit. In March, the International Civil Aviation Organization voted to establish age 65 as the new international standard.



According to FedEx pilot, Bob Lavender, a 28-year airline veteran and former ALPA member, the new standard goes into effect on November 23rd of this year and will ensure the transfer of American jobs to foreign companies. “The new standard means that American pilots who wish to continue flying past 60 in this country may do so, but only if they go to work for a foreign carrier.” A good number of foreign carriers such as the fast-growing Emirates Airlines are already recruiting American pilots, says Lavender.



A seeming irony to this is that American pilots who work for a foreign company will remain citizens of the U.S. and, frequently, continue to reside here. They will fly the same types of airplanes loaded with passengers and freight over the same exact routes as their counterparts who work for American companies. Another twist, adds Lavender, is that “American pilots who are forced to work for foreign companies will likely add their voices to those calling for increased foreign ownership of American airline companies. It will simply be in their best interest to help their new employers expand in this country.”



Other observers predict that the outsourcing of pilot jobs to foreign companies will continue to put downward pressure on pilot salaries at companies like FedEx where pilot pay is said to be the highest in the industry. Says Gary Cottingham of the Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination organization, “Foreign salaries are generally less than those paid at companies such as FedEx. The increasing number of American pilots who are paid foreign wages will drive the standards down.”



As for ALPA’s continuing support of the age 60 limitation, Lavender states, “This is another example of an American union self-destructing by resisting change. It is a shame, but some unions think that 50-year-old policies still work in the modern world. Any union that condones the firing of is members solely based on age, puts its entire membership at a global disadvantage.”



For more information, contact Gary Cottingham at: apaad.org (click on “Contact Us”)
 

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Plane go boom.
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it's alpa's own damn fault. they've sat on their thumbs while their membership goes down in flames and loses every cent of their promised and contracted retirements yet they want to pretend that most alpa members don't want the age limit changed. we can't get rid of duane woerth fast enough.
 

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despite my rants on calforum, i'm willing to give alpa a chance. woerth-less has to go, however. although the damage is done; not too sure what we can do about it now. our next contract won't be effective until 2010 at the absolute earliest. my last one, that's for sure (unless age-60 changes).
 

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ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ
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We ought to ditch ALPA and go with the teamsters. Get a union with brass balls and lead pipes to "negotiate" with "management".
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Let me see,

Auto Workers Union - GM and every other auto manufacturer selling out to foriegn company or reporting a loss. Most "parts made outside the USA.

Steel workers Union - Do we even make steel in the USA anymore?

Labor union - Companies scrambling to hire illegals or figure out how to make a profit.

Airline pilots Union - Future airline pilots coming from foriegn operators...

Teachers Union - Do most of our kids even know how to spell, read and do math? Teachers don't pay Social Security and have one heck of a retirement package. Don't let them tell you they don't make enough money. Thier compensation is more than adequate.

The only thing unions do is cost consumers and taxpayers more money and force workers out of jobs under the guise of paying them a few dollars more for a short time. They even sell, "We'll take care of you" lines.

I think there's a trend here. It's not which union, it UNION! Their time has long since passed. Nevermind that Labor and Teamsters are run by the mob.
 

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right, it's the unions who have run the airlines into the ground, not management selling tickets for less than cost.
 

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I see a huge problem with extending the age past 60. The biggest of which is all these people who want it gone are the one's who have benefited most from the rule being in effect. Now that it's their turn, all of a sudden it's a bad rule. BS. As for ALPA, yes, they have a lot of problems, but as of right now, the membership wants the age 60 rule in place, so that's what they're lobbying for. Just my $.02 worth.

Crash
 

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i know alpa says the membership wants to keep age-60 but this just flies in the face of reality. the reality is that usair, ua, shortly dl and probably nw have all lost their pensions. are you telling me that all the pilots at 4 legacy carriers with no retirement are all going to go quietly at 60? no effing way. i do not want to fly past 60 but since my lump sum was frozen at 1/3 of what i was supposed to get and i now have an entire 8 years to make up over $700,000, i would have to look at the chance to keep flying very carefully. it's either that or win the lottery.
 

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What is the POINT of forced retirement at age 60 ??

If it's a health issue, then adjust the requirements for a Class I medical (if necessary).

ALPA's postion should not be mandatory retirement at some arbitrary age.
ALPA should support a pilot being able to work as long as he WANTS to and is physically able to.
What ALPA SHOULD do... is have contractual language that allows pilots to retire at age 60with FULLY VESTED BENEFITS if they choose to retire at that point.

But the reality seems to be that ALPA is interested in what's good for ALPA, not necessarily what's good for pilots.

I don't mean to single out ALPA, but I have no personal experience with any other union.

There are plenty of young pilots (I have over 20 years to go 'till age 60) who do NOT support the age 60 rule. The ones that do, seem to like it ONLY because it helps them move up the seniority list short-term. (At the expense of their fellow pilots who would like to keep working... how's that for "brotherhood").

*done venting*
 

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i'm hoping that the alpa national officer elections in the fall will pave the way for a whole new attitude with alpa and that we'll finally see an end to the "collaborating with the enemy as a strategy" mindset. i'm sick of watching alpa preside over the destruction of my career--and having to PAY them for it, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The age 60 rule has nothing to do with pilots health and fitness to fly. The airlines have lobbied to have this rule mandated by the feds strictly as a cost saving measure. If they can lop off all the highest paid pilots they save a bundle. This is why our so called respresentatives just mumble lots of nothing when this issue is presented to them. IF they vote against it, they loose financial support from the airline lobby.
 

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First off, back in the 60's Alpa was against the age 60 rule, but the membership wanted it in, so alpa changed their position. Alpa took a poll a couple of years ago and it overwhelmingly showed support for the age 60 rule. I'm not keen about my retirement going down the crapper, but I knew when I got hired 20 yrs ago, retirement probably wouldn't be here, (it looks like i guessed right on something) and i planned accordingly. I still don't want to go past age 60. Most all of the pilots at delta over age 50 took early retirement the last 2 1/2 yrs so they'd get their lump sum. They're very few pilots over 50 that stayed on. They gambled and it looks like they lost. I'm not sure what my point is here. Yes i think alpa is out of touch almost all the time, but i for one do not want to see the age 60 changed.
 

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the age 60 rule does nothing to lower the airlines costs. I think about all airlines pay scales top out at 12yrs, so whether a 60 yr old or a 45 yr old is flying, the rate they pay him is going to be the same.
 

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Originally posted by crash141
the age 60 rule does nothing to lower the airlines costs. I think about all airlines pay scales top out at 12yrs, so whether a 60 yr old or a 45 yr old is flying, the rate they pay him is going to be the same.
Pensions and retirements.
 

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It boils down to money, it is cheaper for the airlines to kick them out at 60 and pay a new hire to take his place. The rules have changed in the EU and Asia because they have had a shortage of pilots. I can't really see the US getting into a pilot shortage for quite a while.
The age 60 rule has nothing to do with ability and everything to do with keeping things cheaper. Unions have proven ineffective during times of economic hardship, but they certainly haven't caused the hard times.
 
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