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OPINION: Brass To Face Is NOT A Malfunction

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by SJ 40, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. SJ 40

    SJ 40 Deplorable,Clinger

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    OPINION: Brass To Face Is NOT A Malfunction


    "Like it or not, Brass To Face or BTF malfunctions are not a thing. Sure, it is an annoying thing to happen when you are at the range but it is far from a malfunction. I am not going to dive into the reason for the brass to be ejected towards the face, there are tons of videos and posts all over the internet that dive into this so-called “malfunction”.


    "Sure, there are those that feel that a piece of hot brass hurtling towards their face in a self-defense situation is dangerous and could blind you. I guess that is a concern. I counter that if you are using your gun in a self-defense situation, the last thing I care about is being bonked in the face by some warm brass. Don’t care if it burns me, don’t care if it sticks to my eye even, I just care that the brass is out of the gun and a fresh cartridge is loaded into the chamber."

    "In my humble opinion, brass to face “malfunctions” are just another thing for people to gripe about. It is in no way an actual malfunction since the brass has obviously left the gun and is being replaced with a fresh round."


    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/06/opinion-brass-face-not-malfunction/


    We all know the saying you know what opinions are like.

    My 1998 Gen 3 G 19 doesn't throw brass anywhere other than 4:30,no matter the ammunition it's fead including a ridiculously soft 750 fps hand load.
    Very much unlike a friends 2012 G 19 that throws brass to the face of so far any of it's shooters,not sure I'd have had the patience with it that he has. SJ 40




     
    WeeWilly and First shot like this.
  2. D.B.Cooper

    D.B.Cooper

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    I've owned several Glocks and the Gen3 G17 was the only one that had the BTF issue, my Gen 4 26, 17, and 34 have not had this issue with the exact same ammo. I did change the ejector on the Gen 3 17 to a 30274 and it solved the BTF issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017

  3. First shot

    First shot

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    Good one, SJ40. Both my 23, 26 and M&P 45 chunk them at 4:30. My OLD Colt 1911 chunks then at 5:30, but waaaayyyy back there. Great descriptions by the way.
     
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  4. sciolist

    sciolist

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    The purpose of shooting is to place hits on target. Anything that interferes with that process is a reduction of function - period. Whether you want to call it a malfunction or not is semantics.
     
  5. pblanc

    pblanc

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    Well, the tendency for a pistol to consistently throw hot brass at your face or down the front of your shirt is sure as hell not a desirable function. Might not be a big issue in a self-defense scenario but when training with a pistol having a high likelihood of an ejected case hitting you is very likely going to affect how you shoot that pistol and therefore your accuracy with it.

    There are plenty of pistols that don't do this. Why anyone would want to put up with one that does is beyond me.
     
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  6. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I have had a few pieces of brass over many years that came toward my face , sometimes catching on top of sunglasses or safety glasses ... ouch.

    But generally it's something that after shooting 50 different handguns I have generally not experienced. It would not fly for a practice or competition gun. I would try adjusting recoil spring / ejector / and extractor until the issue was not there.
     
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  7. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Sure, it's not a "malfunction" in the sense that the gun's operation is impacted. But it's still annoying as hell and inexcusable and affects MY function
     
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  8. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    And by the way I would not consider that a normal ejection pattern. I don't know how much effort gun designers put into this area. But in my opinion it's either not an issue or they do a great job keeping the brass going to 4:30 position at about 2 feet away. In fact I look at the pile of brass when I am shooting outside and if I am not ejecting brass in a nice pile in that area I would look for an out of spec part.

    I have built a couple pistols and installed and tuned extractors on many 1911's .... on other guns you don't " tune " an extractor , just install it. But I have not had guns whap me in the face with brass. I shoot a lot and many different guns... it just has not been an issue.
     
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  9. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    I'd say that hot brass to the eye that blinds you and keeping you from shooting straight...might just be a problem.

    And if a gun were to eject brass that way and nothing is wrong with the ejector, extractor then it's a crappy gun design.
     
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  10. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    I counter that if you are using your gun in a self-defense situation, the last thing I care about is being bonked in the face by some warm brass. Don’t care if it burns me, don’t care if it sticks to my eye even, I just care that the brass is out of the gun and a fresh cartridge is loaded into the chamber.

    The guy is a flippin' moron.
     
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  11. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    Wow I sure would agree with both of your statements. I am curious if the ammo is not a good velocity or the recoil spring is out of a normal range??

    I have not had consistent brass coming at me ever... just the very occasional piece. So it would be an interesting challenge to solve the problem. I have loaned a woman a hoodie or t-shirt to keep her fashion from allowing a very hot piece of brass finding a bad place to rest.

    I do generally discuss this with new shooters. If you have not established good muzzle habits... this could be a very dangerous situation. So I guess if someone was having this issue I would consider it a possible dangerous condition.

    I discuss clothing that works to shoot in, I guess the brass issue could be part of that discussion.
     
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  12. sciolist

    sciolist

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    Here's an example. 2:50 in video below.

    You can observe balance of the gun and ejection up to that point. In order to call a shot on the 20 yard disc, I have to use sight focus, so vision needs to come back to the sights on the transition from the C zone plates to the disc. And suddenly there's a big piece of brass there. That's a malfunction. It could have impaired my follow-through on the disc, and definitely could have impaired my transition to the rack.

    But I know why it happened and how to prevent it from happening with my match ammo, so NBD.

     
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  13. First shot

    First shot

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    In all seriousness, or as close as I can get, if this occurs more than occasionally, it definitely would be a pain in the a** or face rather and would obviously hinder practice shooting. I think that quantico may have it with weak ammo. We all, for the most part, know that cheap off the shelf target ammo is under powered. Mas Ayoob has written about it, and I know Hicock has mentioned it. So for those that have this problem consistently, I'd start by shooting a few mags of some quality carry ammo. If it still persists, then it could be a spring or extractor. I've always figured that the more oomph the bullet has going out, the more oomph the slide and extractor have going back. My two cents.
     
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  14. Cpt.America

    Cpt.America

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    My glocks run JUST like this. most brass eject fine out to the right, but a few rounds a session.. maybe 1 out of 50 or 1 out of 100, come straight back at me. I have only once had one hit me in the eyepro. 90% of the time they either hit my chest, or forehead.

    Why would ONE round come straight back but most go out at 4:00? Seems strange me. I honestly have no idea what causes it.
     
  15. sciolist

    sciolist

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    It's a weak charge.
     
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  16. TeaDub

    TeaDub

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    If no one talks about BTF or the new cosmetic blacking, half the traffic on GG would disappear. :whistling:
     
  17. Taz

    Taz

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    I think we are missing the sarcasm font from the OP.

    Personally anything that takes me out of the fight like burning hot (yes brass straight out of the pipe will burn skin and corneas)brass in the eye is considered a BAD thing. If your gun does this, no matter what brand, get it fixed or ditch it.
     
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  18. Cpt.America

    Cpt.America

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    Just wear your eye-pro everywhere you go, 24/7/365! Problem solved!
     
  19. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    You are absolutely correct, more oomph = more slide speed and therefore further distance on ejection.

    If this was happening to me I would try some blazer ammo ( brass or aluminum ) that stuff is HOT ... and see if more power helps.

    If that did not work I would use my general high quality range ammo ( Winchester white box) which I would describe as " good general ammo" with normal speed and accuracy, it is usually a great running choice.

    Pmc or Remington green box or ten other typical normal price ammo , would be next try... and steel case and super cheap ammo that I would normally avoid would be be most likely the cause or potential cause of issues.

    QUESTION : for folks that have changed your ejector # ???? Did it work ?? Did glock recommend the change?? Or someone on the forum??

    I guess since my guns just work I have never thought about changing an ejector. They are rather low tech chunks of metal to bounce the lower left corner of the brass coming out to bang it up and to the right.

    Has glock updated ejectors often or much ?? I know they change magazine followers many many times , but I never have heard of ejectors being changed much. Let me know if you have info.
     
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  20. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I wear eye protection when I shoot. I require it of my students as well. But really ??? If the brass kept hitting you ... would you not be displeased with that situation ??

    I have never had it happen with any pistol on a regular basis... so it is sure not a normal / typical situation. Maybe it occurs more on subcompact guns that I don't own, or maybe just on weak or crappy 9mm ?? But I put more rounds thru a gun than 95 percent of the shooting folks on this forum. It's not normal if I have not seen it or heard about it from my friends and fellow shooters / range members / competitors .