[gadgetnut259]

I had asked this question in another thread elsewhere on this forum, but I never really got an answer. Anyhow...If you live in a state that allows open carry, but you also have a concealed carry permit, why is it such a big deal if your gun accidentally shows? I've heard people say that if you have a CC permit and you expose your gun, you can be charged with brandishing a weapon. Yet, open carry is legal. This makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

[wuvmyglock]

If your firearm is ACCIDENTALLY exposed then it is not brandishing.. HOWEVER.... If you pull up your shirt in a heated discussion etc.... as in a way to threaten or make an aggressive gesture then that is brandishing.. In otherwords... A wardrobe malfunction is not brandishing..


Definition:
1
: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2
: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

 

[gadgetnut259]

If your firearm is ACCIDENTALLY exposed then it is not brandishing.. HOWEVER.... If you pull up your shirt in a heated discussion etc.... as in a way to threaten or make an aggressive gesture then that is brandishing.. In otherwords... A wardrobe malfunction is not brandishing..


Definition:
1
: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2
: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

That makes sense. So then why are people who live in open-carry states so worried about concealment, printing, and so on? If open carry is legal, then why do people get so concerned about how well they hide it?

 

[RussP]

I had asked this question in another thread elsewhere on this forum, but I never really got an answer. Anyhow...If you live in a state that allows open carry, but you also have a concealed carry permit, why is it such a big deal if your gun accidentally shows? I've heard people say that if you have a CC permit and you expose your gun, you can be charged with brandishing a weapon. Yet, open carry is legal. This makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Well, it really depends on the other circumstances; where you are; what you're doing; who's watching; how accidental it is perceived to be; what the local customs are.

Who's telling you it's a big deal?

How long have you been carrying?

 

[DrunkenParrot]

Well for most it is about concealment. They don't want anyone to know that they have a firearm. Hence the worrying about printing and so on. I open carry here on KY and also Cc. I mainly Cc in big cities ie. Lexington, Lville, but open everywhere else. The reason is people get kind of strange when they see someone with a gun. So to keep that from happening and causing a scene, I Cc. BTW Open carry is not for everyone. This is why many choose not to and CC, like I do. YMMV.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

 

[gadgetnut259]

Well, it really depends on the other circumstances; where you are; what you're doing; who's watching; how accidental it is perceived to be; what the local customs are.

Who's telling you it's a big deal?

How long have you been carrying?

Noone is telling me personally that its a big deal. I'm referring to the concealed carry community in general and the way most people are about it. Not sure why you asked me how long I've carried or what that has to do with anything, but let's just say Im not new at it.
Here's the way I see it: Common sense has to play a big part in this. If I'm sitting in a restaurant with my gun on me, even if its 100% legal because of my permit, common sense tells me its probably going to cause a commotion if the table full of soccer moms next to me sees it. Therefore, I keep it hidden. BUT, if it gets exposed by accident, and its an open carry state, can I get into trouble? If so, why? I have never gotten a straight answer on this, even from LE.

 

[RussP]

Noone is telling me personally that its a big deal. I'm referring to the concealed carry community in general and the way most people are about it.

I will guess you are talking about people on message boards, forums and blogs.

Yes, many who carry concealed strive to remain totally covered 100% with no printing whatsoever. I might wager that this is the largest part of the concealed carry family. It doesn't matter whether they live in an open carry state or not. They do not want to give anyone even the slightest hint they might be carrying a firearm. That is a big deal to them, whether anyone else cares or not.

Not sure why you asked me how long I've carried or what that has to do with anything, but let's just say Im not new at it.

Information...

Here's the way I see it: Common sense has to play a big part in this. If I'm sitting in a restaurant with my gun on me, even if its 100% legal because of my permit, common sense tells me its probably going to cause a commotion if the table full of soccer moms next to me sees it.

Is that really common sense, or are you going on what you read on the internet? Why is it common sense that any soccer mom will be bothered by seeing a glimpse of your firearm? My experience in nine years carrying is just the opposite. I've had breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee, dozens and dozens of times with moms and their kids nearby, even at the next table that is 4 inches from mine. Never have I noticed any negative reaction, and I usually was open carrying.

Therefore, I keep it hidden.

Good, for you.

BUT, if it gets exposed by accident, and its an open carry state, can I get into trouble? If so, why? I have never gotten a straight answer on this, even from LE.

There is no straight answer to that question. As I said before, it really depends on ALL of the other circumstances; where you are; what you're doing; who's watching; how accidental it is perceived to be; what the local customs are. If yuou were here in Virginia, out having lunch, and you dropped your napkin, leaned over to retrieve it, and in doing so your cover garment rose and exposed your firearm and you made no other motion toward it, I would say no, you would not be in trouble. That, however is a very simple, very specific example.

Now, things might be different for you in downtown Philadelphia.

 

[SouthernBoyVA]

I live in Virginia where open carry is the normal, or default, mode of carrying a defensive sidearm whereas concealing it requires permission from our employees. On those occasions when I deem it to be in my interests to CC, I do not want to show or print when I can avoid it. However if I do, it's no big deal since OC is the normal mode. So when I want to conceal, I want to conceal... it's that simple.

 

[gadgetnut259]

I think I may not have communicated the main point to my question very well. That's my fault. I'm not as interested in the mindset or preference of an individual, as I am in the actual law. The reason I asked about why people do what they do was to see if it's because of how laws are written in different open-carry states.

There is no straight answer to that question. As I said before, it really depends on ALL of the other circumstances; where you are; what you're doing; who's watching; how accidental it is perceived to be; what the local customs are.

See, that's my point exactly. There should be a straight answer to that question. What the "local customs" are wouldn't hold up in court if an over zellous police officer decided to make his own rules and overstep the law because of how he personally feels about a situation.

I know it is going to be different from state to state, but I really just want to know this: If it's an open-carry state and you have a CC permit, is it against the law if you're carrying concealed and it accidentally shows?

 

[writwing]

I had asked this question in another thread elsewhere on this forum, but I never really got an answer. Anyhow...If you live in a state that allows open carry, but you also have a concealed carry permit, why is it such a big deal if your gun accidentally shows? I've heard people say that if you have a CC permit and you expose your gun, you can be charged with brandishing a weapon. Yet, open carry is legal. This makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Idiot Politicians.

Here is CT open carry is legal unless you alarm the public, so it is in effect illegal.

 

[Bruce M]

I live in Virginia where open carry is the normal, or default, mode of carrying a defensive sidearm whereas concealing it requires permission from our employees. ....

Sorry I am confused. Do you need permission from subordinates to carry concealed or from peers? Do more carry openly than concealed?

.... What the "local customs" are wouldn't hold up in court if an over zellous police officer decided to make his own rules and overstep the law because of how he personally feels about a situation.

?

I would say that if an officer oversteps and makes his own rules, most courts would take note of that. Not to say it would not be costly in legal fees but I would guess most courts would work on the rule of law not an officer's own made up rules.

 

[Oso]

That makes sense. So then why are people who live in open-carry states so worried about concealment, printing, and so on? If open carry is legal, then why do people get so concerned about how well they hide it?

You say this like we all worry about it. Most of us don't care. I don't.

Some people feel that concealed carry actually causes more problems when someone spots your weapon than if you were open carrying. Some people (non-gun owners) feel that if they see you "hiding" your weapon, then you must be up to no good. This could result in a visit from your local peace officers, which is no big deal if you are legal, but can still be inconvenient if i causes you to be late for work or pick up your kids. If it stays hidden, then you won't be hassled by the man.

 

[Oso]

I think I may not have communicated the main point to my question very well. That's my fault. I'm not as interested in the mindset or preference of an individual, as I am in the actual law. The reason I asked about why people do what they do was to see if it's because of how laws are written in different open-carry states.

See, that's my point exactly. There should be a straight answer to that question. What the "local customs" are wouldn't hold up in court if an over zellous police officer decided to make his own rules and overstep the law because of how he personally feels about a situation.

I know it is going to be different from state to state, but I really just want to know this: If it's an open-carry state and you have a CC permit, is it against the law if you're carrying concealed and it accidentally shows?

This was answered in post #2 :dunno:

No it is not against the law if you accidentally show your weapon in an open carry state. The key word is accidentally. If you show it on purpose, it can be considered brandishing. At least that is how it works in Michigan. You need to do your own investigating for your own state.

 

[Boot Stomper]

I personally like conceal carry over open carry. I have done both and prefer the public not to know I am carrying a handgun.

From a criminals point of view, Concealed Carry creates doubt in the criminal mind. Anyone could have a gun. The fear of having a would-be victim with a gun should scares most criminals.

Finally, I would not want to walk around openly carrying with a $1000.00 Kimber strapped to my side. It could actually make you a target for crime.

 

[Bruce M]

I know it is going to be different from state to state, but I really just want to know this: If it's an open-carry state and you have a CC permit, is it against the law if you're carrying concealed and it accidentally shows?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html

Near as I can tell in Florida no - possibly added recently. The statute in effect says that if the gun is being carried concealed and is briefly displayed openly unless in a threatening manner, that is specifically not a violation of the concealed carry statute.

 

[FireForged]

since the language is so different from State to State, its kinda difficult to have a friendly debate without someone posting the written elements of brandishing and the like.

 

[RussP]

I think I may not have communicated the main point to my question very well. That's my fault. I'm not as interested in the mindset or preference of an individual, as I am in the actual law. The reason I asked about why people do what they do was to see if it's because of how laws are written in different open-carry states.

Then, yes, people do what they do based on the laws of their state, or the state in which they are carrying.

See, that's my point exactly. There should be a straight answer to that question.

Do you know what totality of circumstances means? In a nutshell, it means that there is no single deciding factor, that one must consider all the facts, the context, and conclude from the whole picture whether a citizen acted under color of law.

For example, if you were simply reaching for an item on the top shelf at a store and your shirt rode up exposing your firearm, with no other circumstances surrounding the act, it would probably be construed that you were acting legally.

Add this factor, this circumstance to the situation. Just prior to you reaching, you were in an argument with a guy, a heated argument where you told the guy he'd better not mess with you. Then you reached up and "accidentally" exposing your firearm. Would you agree that might be looked at as an aggressive action on your part? Could it be interpreted by the other party or a third party to be an escalation of the argument?

What the "local customs" are wouldn't hold up in court if an over zellous police officer decided to make his own rules and overstep the law because of how he personally feels about a situation.

Local customs would include the attitude of law enforcement and their known reaction to people legally carrying a firearm. If there are 100 instances of police encounters with people legally carrying firearms, and 99 of them ended well, that would illustrate the local custom. If the 100th encounter does not go well, then it deserves more scrutiny as to why it was different than the other 99.

I know it is going to be different from state to state, but I really just want to know this: If it's an open-carry state and you have a CC permit, is it against the law if you're carrying concealed and it accidentally shows?

Nothwithstanding any circumstance to the contrary, it should not be illegal.

 

[RussP]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html

Near as I can tell in Florida no - possibly added recently. The statute in effect says that if the gun is being carried concealed and is briefly displayed openly unless in a threatening manner, that is specifically not a violation of the concealed carry statute.

That's the key...

 

[glockman513]

Here in Ohio, before CCW law, OC was legal. However, you could be charged with inducing panic in public and or disorderly conduct.

 

[SouthernBoyVA]

Sorry I am confused. Do you need permission from subordinates to carry concealed or from peers? Do more carry openly than concealed?



I would say that if an officer oversteps and makes his own rules, most courts would take note of that. Not to say it would not be costly in legal fees but I would guess most courts would work on the rule of law not an officer's own made up rules.

The government and all of its agencies and departments is owned by We the People, and all of the staff of these entities are therefore employees and servants of We the People. That was my meaning.