Open Liberal Political Activism/Indoctrination at Public Middle School

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by F14Scott, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    Today, my son, who attends a private school, had a scholastic bowl meet at an area public school (Mossville Junior High School in Chillicothe, IL, http://moss.ivcschools.com/, just north of Peoria). I was upset, but not entirely surprised, to find the following poster on the wall of the classroom where the competition was held.

    [​IMG]

    For the record, the phone number on the poster is the Illinois governor’s office.

    I wonder if any of the teachers, all of whom are members of teachers’ unions, and all of whom would benefit by the expansion of taxation directed at education, recognize the conflict of interest brought up by the hanging of the poster/indoctrination of the children.

    I also wonder why taxes must be increased to maintain a program evidently in existence. Could it be that the spending within the district have grown beyond the current tax revenues?

    Disgusting.
     
  2. bluenoise

    bluenoise

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    I feel your anger. I'm sure you can imagine what is going on here in California. The kids are being sent home with fliers saying their teachers will lose their jobs if we don't raise property taxes even more (They passed a bond measure a couple years ago that was supposed to save our schools). Now they are also petitioning to make it so that raising taxes will only require a 55% "super majority." I sure would like to know where these people think the money will come from.

    I haven't looked to see how much spending-per-pupil has increased in the past decade or two (if at all), but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it has risen far faster than most economic indexes.
     

  3. Ersatz

    Ersatz

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    You consider a poster regarding a political issue related to education, advocating a pro funding for pre-kindergarten position, in a classroom of middle-schoolers who couldn't care less... indoctrination?
     
  4. silentpoet

    silentpoet

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    COmplain to the schoolboard. It wont do much good to complain to us.
     
  5. HKUSP45Css

    HKUSP45Css

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    I do.

    I, honestly, don't understand how you could see it any other way.

    What, exactly, is the "educational interest" in getting the kids (who can't vote) involved in the political process at this level if not to have them coerse their parents.
     
  6. INJoker

    INJoker Simply Charming

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    Everybody wants pristine roads to drive on. Nobody wants higher taxes to pay for them.

    Everybody wants well-educated children. Nobody wants higher taxes to pay for them.

    Everybody wants more effective police forces. Nobody wants higher taxes to pay for them.

    Do I think what these teachers are doing is right? Absolutely not. Do I find it somewhat despicable that the students are being used as pawns in all of this? Sure.

    However, do I also think that the average teenager today is less prepared to enter college and/or a career than even I was, just a decade ago? Yes.

    You want a real eye-opener? Volunteer for a day in a class full of high school seniors and ask them who the Vice President of the United States is. Or volunteer in a 5th grade class and have kids "read" to you (even money says that 1/3 of them are reading at about a 1st grade level).

    The system is most definitely broken, but in response to the recession, state and local governments have been tightening their belts down to the last hole.

    In my area alone, class sizes for elementary students are in the 30s and they are STILL laying teachers off at the end of this year.

    Do I want my kids in a class with 35 other students when all the research in the world indicates that class sizes of 16-20 are ideal for maximizing students' academic potential?

    There are very few things "worth" investing tax money in. To me though, defense and education are the two biggest.
     
  7. PBCounty

    PBCounty

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  8. bluenoise

    bluenoise

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    On the face of it, I agree with your points. However...

    - If funding for the roads is increased by 50%, are 50% more roads fixed, or is the number typically less?

    - If school funding is increased by 50%, are we going to see 50% more competent graduates, or will we see new administration buildings?

    - If we increase funding of police forces by 50%, will we see a 50% decrease in crime or 50% more solved cases?

    The point is, it takes more than just throwing money at a problem. The money has to be spent wisely and efficiently. Funding is a rather poor measure of a school's performance, actually. Also, schools are given mandates from the federal level that, sometimes, are not funded. In the end, bureaucracies are rarely models of economic efficiency.
     
  9. conservativenut

    conservativenut

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    This is very sad, it’s like they are using our children to give the parents a guilt trip. The sadder part is that our children believe them. Here in Ohio I live in one of the highest tax school districts. What I don’t understand is why they think that spending more money per student is going to give them a better education. It seems to me that the more money they spend the worse the education becomes. :dunno:
     
  10. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    Well, let's see... The government compels its citizens, under threat of criminal penalty, to send their children to government schools (or make expensive or otherwise difficult alternate arrangements). Then, while in school, the children are taught that expanding the government school system is important enough to call the government and request the expansion.

    If that's not indoctrination, I don't know what is.
     
  11. HKUSP45Css

    HKUSP45Css

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    You would have a valid point if you could show me a correlation between spending and education successes. The fact is: They don't exist.

    If more money meant better grades and educational standards I would demand we stop building roads until we had 100 percent literacy in American youth.

    Since it doesn't, raising taxes to prop up a failed system is an exercise in futility. No, it's worse than futile because we're actually moving backwards from progress.
     
  12. INJoker

    INJoker Simply Charming

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    bluenoise:

    You bring up an excellent point. What should we really be expecting out of our schools?

    The sad truth is just as you stated - simply throwing money at the problem of education is not likely to do any good.

    Americans, in general, do not value education as much as other countries. I do some work with high school-aged kids, and I can tell you, their apathy is astounding. They see no "future" in going to college.

    I do not have the exact statistics, but only about half of high school graduates in this area attend college and fewer than half of them complete a degree... So essentially, only about 1 in 5 high school seniors in this part of the country will graduate from college.

    The implications of this on our economy, our culture, our standard of living, and our level of technological and scientific competition with other countries is something we really need to start taking seriously.

    Unfortunately, from what I see, there is a whole generation of parents out there right now who embody the same apathy that their children display.

    A softball coach I know once told me, "You can lead a kid to class, but you can't make him think."

    I think we need to copy the Japanese and European models where students compete for slots in more prestigious schools. That way, students who have no interest in going to college can learn a trade or find a role that suits them without having to sit through an Algebra II class they will never benefit from. On the flip side, students who want to excel will not be held back by apathetic peers.
     
  13. 1985 4Runner

    1985 4Runner Agitator

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    We will home school both our children, yet still have to pay school tax.
     
  14. HKUSP45Css

    HKUSP45Css

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    It would make more sense to have the money for each child's education follow them to whatever school they wanted to attend. Inter-school competition would drive education standards through the roof and schools that couldn't compete would fail.

    It works very well in every country with that education system.
     
  15. HKUSP45Css

    HKUSP45Css

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    I don't even have children and school taxes comprise more than 50 percent of my state taxes.
     
  16. INJoker

    INJoker Simply Charming

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    There is a lot of compelling data out there that suggests that "school choice" programs do not correlate with student achievement/higher standardized test scores.

    What does correlate, across the board, is the amount of emphasis parents place on education for their children and the level of involvement the parents have in the child's education.

    For a start, check out the book "Freakonomics" by Dubner and Levitt.

    That said, if I had the choice between my kid going to a more suburban school or an inner-city school, I would choose the suburban school.
     
  17. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    That's why my wife and I choose to spend a very substantial percentage of our income on private education.

    By the way, the kids from our school decimated the kids from the other school. The JV round was something like 250 to 35. The varsity game turned out to be seriously flawed, in that the public school kids had seen the questions and answers at a previous meet. Despite their often answering questions, literally, one or two words into the reading of the question, we still managed to pull out the win. In other words, we beat kids who had already seen all the answers.

    I sat there thinking to myself, "What must the parents who have their kids in that system think about its obvious utter failure?" The PS kids, sadly, were clearly an order of magnitude behind our school in every academic subject: math, history, science, literature, music, etc. For the huge amount of tax dollars they are soaking up, per student, their results were just awful.
     
  18. INJoker

    INJoker Simply Charming

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    F14Scott:

    After my experiences, I will very likely be enrolling my children in private school as well.

    As much as Rabbi and I often do not see eye-to-eye on things, he brought up an excellent point once. He said that most people never become millionaires because they learn to manage money from their own parents. That is, they learn to manage money from people who are not self-made millionaires. The only way to learn how to succeed at making money is to watch people who know how to make money.

    The same goes for education. Children do not respond well to "do as I say, not as I do." If they see uneducated, politically apathetic parents who work low-paying jobs without aspiring to anything more, the children are unlikely to do well. If parents model ambition, responsibility, and appreciation for education, their children are much more likely to take education seriously, even at a young age.

    You don't need to be a NASA physicist to have "bright" or "smart" kids. You need to show them that you care about their future, as well as your own.
     
  19. HKUSP45Css

    HKUSP45Css

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    I'm not talking about choosing between 2 or 3 different schools in the same failed system. I'm talking about allowing parents to send their kids to whatever school they want with the money the state would normally allocate to the school in that child's district.

    Also, I have done some pretty in-depth study on the subject and have found you hypothesis to be flawed. In nearly every instance where parents were given an opportunity to send their children to competitive schools the good schools did better and the bad schools did worse. One of the biggest reason's the "voucher" program was put to sleep was because it was exposing the bad schools in a way that was not ignorable or able to be explained in terms other than "well, yep, that school sucked so I pulled my kids out, now it just sucks worse."

    Competition is what drives innovation. The longer we continue to give schools money for just "existing" the longer we have these problems. Allow parents the choice of where to send their kids and good schools will get better and the bad ones will fail and be replaced by schools competing with the good schools.
     
  20. Sweatypalms

    Sweatypalms

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    I don't agree with everything Glenn Beck says and I know people have mixed feelings about him but one thing I thought he really covered well in his book Arguing with Idiots was the chapter on education. Worth buying the book.